Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Alliance Youth Party of Northern Ireland


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Alliance Party of Northern Ireland. Anything worth merging is still available from the article history. Randykitty (talk) 18:22, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Alliance Youth Party of Northern Ireland

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Any standalone article on an organization needs to meet WP:NORG, but I cannot find such coverage. For example, there are only 9 results on Google news all of which are either op-eds (not RS) or brief mentions. I'm told this article was created as a sizesplit from the Alliance Party of Northern Ireland, but if the info is UNDUE there it can just be removed without creating a separate article that does not meet notability requirements. (t &#183; c)  buidhe  23:49, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

Keep. Very hasty with the nomination. I'm not going to pretend there's lots of sources to choose from however the ones found are WP:RS and does meet basic notability guidelines. I wish this was discussed prior rather than straight to AfD. Abcmaxx (talk) 00:58, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

Also it looks like it isn't formally registered as a separate organisation, like some other youth wings of bigger entities are; they're just the youth of this political party under an informal banner. I don't think anyone can argue that the parent article doesn't meet criteria therefore I see no reason why this fork should be treated differently. All a redirect would do is create a long messy parent article. Abcmaxx (talk) 01:03, 7 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Organizations, Politics,  and Northern Ireland.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 06:26, 7 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Still don't see any independent sources that provide in-depth coverage, so I don't think GNG is met either. WP:NORG applies to "an organization is a group of more than one person formed together for a purpose", and I don't see anywhere that it requires being legally registered. (t &#183; c)  buidhe  12:44, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
 * There's 2 independent newspaper articles about them and they're listed on various international political organisations' websites. It's not perfect but certainly enough to pass. Also the hope is that someone will improve the article and add to it as time goes on. There's also 50 links to the article within Wikipedia. Abcmaxx (talk) 12:58, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Just to clarify the "2 independent newspaper articles" referred to are one that interviews the Alliance Youth leader but fails WP:ORGIND and an op-ed that does not mention Alliance Youth in its text. Both articles are by Rosalind Skillen in Belfast Telegraph. (t &#183; c)  buidhe  13:19, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
 * well it doesn't fail WP:ORGIND because the Belfast Telegraph is an independent Northern Irish newspaper, where's the supposed "vested interest" there? Abcmaxx (talk) 13:54, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
 * "Independent content, in order to count towards establishing notability, must include original and independent opinion, analysis, investigation, and fact checking that are clearly attributable to a source unaffiliated to the subject." The article only covers Alliance Youth leader Luke Patterson for five sentences and just repeats what he says without independent analysis; that's neither intellectually independent nor significant coverage. (t &#183; c)  buidhe  14:17, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
 * That's literally how journalism works. The Belfast Telegraph is independent source unaffiliated to the subject and the article is an original piece covering all the NI political youth wings, not just this one. Abcmaxx (talk) 15:10, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I've not looked into this particular case in any detail, but the position that interviews can not count towards WP:GNG was not accepted by users when it was last discussed. A proposal to add a sentence to that effect to notability guidelines was rejected. A number of users specifically stated that interviews conducted in national level news organisations would contribute to WP:GNG. For a Northern Irish political party, I would say that Belfast Telegraph is a national level source. However, from what is being said above, it seems that the subject of the interview is Luke Patterson, and the BT article doesn't talk much about the organisation he leads? Is that the case? If so, it might confer notability on Patterson rather than the Alliance youth group.Boynamedsue (talk) 07:57, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Boynamedsue Yes that is accurate. Furthermore, since this article is about an organisation the coverage has to meet the intellectual independence standard quoted above. (t &#183; c)  buidhe  17:54, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Star   Mississippi  01:50, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment at the minute I am leaning towards the idea that relevant parts of the article should be merged into Alliance Party of Northern Ireland. Above user Abcmaxx mentions two news sources giving WP:SIGCOV exist, I couldn't find them in the discussion or article, which were they? --Boynamedsue (talk) 07:25, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Sorry, rereading the discussion I've found it. The Skillen article does not mention Alliance Youth Party by name, it is talking about all Norn Ironish Youth Parties and is an opinion article. The coverage of Patterson is the other one, that's not WP:SIGCOV of the Youth Party. So I'd vote it should be deleted, with whatever important stuff not already found in Alliance Party of Northern Ireland added there. Boynamedsue (talk) 07:32, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Except if you merge it back you'll have an incredibly long parent article, hence the WP:SIZESPLIT to a WP:FORK. I've already said that this part of the Alliance Party and not a separate organisation, and the former is clearly notable, I cannot see why this isn't a legitimate fork.Abcmaxx (talk) 08:47, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Ok, in that case I'd say it's just a delete. It would be a legitimate fork if it passed WP:GNG, but as of now it doesn't. I'd keep it as a draft if I was you, it might be that a couple of sources with more coverage turn up, then you could just reinstate it. Boynamedsue (talk) 09:16, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I have just discovered this page despite its numerous mentions of me. Alliance Youth is the only party youth wing in NI without a seperate wikipedia page- Ulster Young Unionists Council. Ogra Shinn Fein & SDLP Youth all have one. With the anticipation that the mother party page will grow significantly due to electoral strength it is perhaps best they stay separate and this page is developed over time? Pattersonluke1 (talk) 15:34, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello Luke, I created the page. I have no affiliation with any political group or even any ties to Northern Ireland, I merely created the page because the parent article was long, and like you said, most major parties' youth wings already have articles. The only reason you are mentioned is because these were the sources that I found and that is what they said. The issue here is that really there's very little out there describing what the youth wing does, I couldn't really find anything even on the parent party website and the only mentions were in the Belfast Telegraph, and even those weren't that detailed. If you know of credible independent sources that could help the article by all means please add it.Abcmaxx (talk) 17:29, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Update Articles from Trouw, British Youth Council and Irish Times have been added. Abcmaxx (talk) 09:51, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   10:31, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
 * The British Youth Council doesn't actually mention Alliance Youth, Irish Times just mentions that Patterson is a leader of it; all the Trouw article has to say about it is "Op basis van die frustratie werd hij anderhalf jaar geleden lid van de jeugdbeweging van Alliance." (not significant coverage) (t &#183; c)  buidhe  10:01, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I would agree that these are not significant coverage, you'd want a paragraph or two. Boynamedsue (talk) 05:37, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Well it was not me who added them, the point was the article is being slowly but surely improved Abcmaxx (talk) 19:17, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Merge back into the Alliance Party of Northern Ireland article. There's no significant coverage of a separate Alliance Youth organization that I could find. Some political parties on the island have standalone youth organizations, like Ógra Fianna Fáil, the Connolly Youth Movement, or the Young Unionists, but as far back as I can recall (which is to the early 1980s) Alliance never went past appointing some youth officers and having a couple of branches at the universities. Fiachra10003 (talk) 04:15, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Merge to the parent party, not independently notable. Stifle (talk) 09:11, 1 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Redirect not implausible search term, but sourcing does not demonstrate notability separate from the larger party. Regards, --Goldsztajn (talk) 02:04, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Merge or Redirect I can't find anything published that gives it a standalone identity. Nothing.   scope_creep Talk  10:32, 3 June 2022 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.