Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Almamy Sogoba


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was nommination withdrawn (non-admin closure) Sir Sputnik (talk) 17:05, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

Almamy Sogoba

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Recreation of an article previously deleted by PROD. Concern was Fails WP:NFOOTBALL and WP:GNG. This remains valid. All coverage of him that I've been able to find is routine sports journalism. He was called to the Africa cup of nations, but as he did not play or receive significant coverage for it, this does not make him notable. Sir Sputnik (talk) 03:24, 20 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. Sir Sputnik (talk) 03:24, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Sir Sputnik (talk) 03:24, 20 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Sir Sputnik (talk) 03:24, 20 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Notability requires verifiable evidence. Whether true or not, without a source a to confirm the fully pro nature of the Malian Premiere Division, the claim to notability is based on speculation. Sir Sputnik (talk) 15:04, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry then, I'm a bit ignorant on the definition of fully professional. I assumed highest level professional league and fully professional meant the same thing.  What is required to be fully professional?  Ryan Vesey  Review me!  15:21, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
 * No, top level and fully pro are not the same thing. You'll note that top level leagues in Ireland and Bosnia, among others, are listed as not fully pro at WP:FPL. At present, there is no formally agreed definition of what a fully pro league is. However, leagues in which there are no amateur players, and in which players are payed enough to not require other jobs are generally considered fully pro. That being said, WP:NSPORT and WP:FPL should only be used as a guideline to determine what players are likely to meet the general notability guideline, not as some arbitrary cut-off point for notability. What's more relevant here is that there is no indication of significant coverage, and as Snowman has pointed out below, there is already a consensus that playing in the Malian Premier League by itself is not a sufficient claim to notability. Hopefully that clears things up. Sir Sputnik (talk) 16:31, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
 * No, top level and fully pro are not the same thing. You'll note that top level leagues in Ireland and Bosnia, among others, are listed as not fully pro at WP:FPL. At present, there is no formally agreed definition of what a fully pro league is. However, leagues in which there are no amateur players, and in which players are payed enough to not require other jobs are generally considered fully pro. That being said, WP:NSPORT and WP:FPL should only be used as a guideline to determine what players are likely to meet the general notability guideline, not as some arbitrary cut-off point for notability. What's more relevant here is that there is no indication of significant coverage, and as Snowman has pointed out below, there is already a consensus that playing in the Malian Premier League by itself is not a sufficient claim to notability. Hopefully that clears things up. Sir Sputnik (talk) 16:31, 20 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Delete - being called up to the 2012 African Cup of Nations (without playing) is not enough, per consensus at this previous AfD, and there is no evidence that the Malian Première Division is fully-pro. This article fails WP:GNG and WP:NFOOTBALL. GiantSnowman 10:37, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep - following Tony's comments below, I am happy that playing in the 2012 CAF Confederation Cup is sufficient - the article, however, needs updating and improving. Also please note that WP:FOOTYN is merely an essay, not policy. GiantSnowman 11:44, 23 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Delete I had a misinterpretation of the current rules for footballers, Sir Sputnik and GiantSnowman have corrected me.  Ryan Vesey  Review me!  17:05, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Back to Keep per TonyStarks. Ryan Vesey  Review me!  17:00, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep - The Malian League might not be pro but AS Real Bamako are a professional team and play in African continental competition regulary. Sogoba is the starting keeper and just recently started in both legs of the 2012 CAF Confederation Cup second round match-up against Wydad Casablanca, another professional team (see here). As per WP:FOOTYN, he is notable ("Have played in a competitive fixture between two fully professional clubs in a domestic, Continental or Intercontinental club competition."). Also, the fact that he was called up to the 2012 Africa Cup of Nations for a team like Mali should be factored in (meaning he's not some random Malian league player). I'd ask that the people that already voted for deleting the article re-evaluate their position based on this information. TonyStarks (talk) 09:27, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep per TonyStarks. Mentoz86 (talk) 05:52, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep as nominator. Playing in the CAF Champions League should make him notable. Sir Sputnik (talk) 15:42, 26 May 2012 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.