Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Alonzo Hawk (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Keenan Wynn. Spartaz Humbug! 23:20, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

Alonzo Hawk
AfDs for this article: 
 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

2009 Afd closed due to WP:GOOGLEHITS arguments. I looked at Books/Scholar and couldn't find anything that goes beyond passing WP:PLOT mention. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 17:39, 14 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here  17:39, 14 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Disney-related deletion discussions. Toughpigs (talk) 17:55, 14 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Film-related deletion discussions. Toughpigs (talk) 17:55, 14 February 2020 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Keep per WP:NEXIST. I added some sources to the article -- two contemporary newspaper articles that talk to Keenan Wynn about his approach to the part, and a shout-out from Leonard Maltin in The Disney Films. -- Toughpigs (talk) 18:26, 14 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment: I found a source discussing the character here. However, I'm not sure if this article could be any more than a permanent stub per WP:PAGEDECIDE. While Toughpigs found some quality content, the lengthy quotes are fully associated with Herbie Rides Again and could belong there. At minimum, the article should merge/redirect to Keenan Wynn with 2-3 sentences about this recurring role. Judging from the details so far, this does not strike me as the kind of character where there is in-depth discussion across multiple works. Erik (talk &#124; contrib) (ping me) 20:53, 14 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi Erik, I'm glad you found another source. I think that is an example of what you're saying we need, a source that's discussing the character across multiple works. Or am I misunderstanding? -- Toughpigs (talk) 21:37, 14 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I mean that even with that source, it's not a very detailed discussion of the character overall. It's not a lot of "meat" to sustain a standalone article where it seems like it could be covered in a few sentences at the actor's article. The novelty is more in the recurring appearances in otherwise disparate works than anything substantial to say. I could be wrong, but plunging for sources, it seems hard to envision something more than a perpetual stub. Erik (talk &#124; contrib) (ping me) 03:03, 15 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete There is not enough indepth discussion to justify this article. Beyond that, I think we are jumping to conclusions that just because the same actor plays a similar named (but appearantly different middle initial character) in films that have entirely different settings it is the same character. I am not convinced we have anything that really supports the view that Alonzo Hawk in The Adsent Minded Professor is the same as Hawk in Herbie Rides Again. I know some want to say "but the same guy played the character", but that ignores the facts on the ground in different settings, and especially Hawk of Herbie Rides Again being a long running scheming builder of real estate wealth in San Francisco. I think this article is built around an unsourced assumption that these two characters in very different movies with no setting overlap otherwise as somehow one and the same.John Pack Lambert (talk) 19:54, 17 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete - The sources currently in the article are extremely minor and do not hold up to the significant coverage threshold. TTN (talk) 12:11, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Barkeep49 (talk) 05:59, 22 February 2020 (UTC) Delete or Redirect to Keenan Wynn - As Erik said, while there are some sources discussing the character(s?), the coverage in them is not enough that this would ever be able to be more than a stub. The information would be better covered as a brief mention on the actor's article, if anything. There is also the issue, brought up by John Pack Lambert above, that there is no indication that the character in the Flubber movies and the one in the Herbie movie is actually meant to be the same character. While I am fine with straight deletion, a redirect to the actor's article would also be fine, as Redirects are cheap. Rorshacma (talk) 16:52, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
 * My name is John Pack Lambert, my middle name is Pack.
 * My apologies for the mistake. I fixed your name in my above comment. :) Rorshacma (talk) 20:56, 24 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete. Severely lacking reliable sources, in or outside of the article. Dorama285 (talk) 20:10, 25 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Keenan Wynn. Any relevant content can always be merged there as well.4meter4 (talk) 01:48, 1 March 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.