Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Alpha Pi Lambda


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. -- Cirt (talk) 20:56, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Alpha Pi Lambda

 * – ( View AfD View log  •  )

Non-notable local fraternity at Drexel University. While their chapter house is part of the Powelton Village, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania (a historic district) there's no evidence that the fraternity itself is notable. GrapedApe (talk) 02:30, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Neutral: While I agree that the article is pretty weak in its current form, I think there are plenty of leads for an expert (or at least somebody who knows what he is talking about) to make something of this article. I've tagged it for Rescue for that reason; I've also posted a message on the Fraternity and Sorority Project Talk page, listing the points that I think the aforementioned expert could work with. -- BenTels (talk) 17:55, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This article has been nominated for rescue. BenTels (talk) 17:55, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
 * The Google news results are mostly from university newspapers. Other mentions include rape crimes at that fraternity, and the university stating they had problems in the past with this group.    D r e a m Focus  22:34, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 15:42, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Some thoughts, in no particular order: 1) Drexel University is notable, and the fraternity is a historically constitutive part of the University, thus, I think, making the fraternity notable enough provided there's enough information to warrant its own page. Are there notability guidelines for fraternities specifically?
 * 2) Most fraternities--social, academic, or otherwise--can only be located on the web and in the news by their own internal publications, university pub's, or org. press releases. There are rare exceptions to this.  To this point, I think it is wise to keep with what is standard for this group of organizations.  Otherwise, the only fraternities we might have on Wikipedia would be Phi Beta Kappa and Skull and Bones.  Certainly they are not the only ones worth documenting.
 * 3) If someone has a copy of Baird's Manual of American College Fraternities, perhaps they can see if this one is listed.  That might give us another indicator of where to go on this one.

 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:02, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Just because Drexel University is notable dosen't mean that this organization is notable. Notability from 1 entity doesn't confer notability on another. See WP:INHERIT. Since there is a 1 chapter fraternity, it's no different than a local club, which are generally not notable without multiple independent sources.--GrapedApe (talk) 19:00, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree with the logic of your first point GrapedApe. I also think you are right to draw comparison to a local club.  However, on the other hand, the fact that it is only a one chapter society does not alone determine or preclude notability, nor do I understand such a status to have any bearing on the application of notability guidelines.  My concern lies in the fact that there is generally a problem finding independent sources online for most of the fraternity/sorority/honor society websites.  Usually, multiple independent sources for these organizations require someone researching books, not just the web (e.g., FA-class Alpha Kappa Alpha and also Phi Beta Kappa). Thus, one cannot expect multiple independent sources germane to an encyclopedia article on the subject to be apparent by mere web search.  Also, one who authors a stub is not always an expert on the subject.  So, although I think this fraternity has not demonstrated itself yet as notable, I think it should be allowed to be a stub for some time until an expert can find and include independent sources, especially if it can be found in Baird's.  If, in a few months, no one steps forward, it gets deleted.--Lhakthong (talk) 19:47, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.


 * Delete an article on the house might stand a chance depending on what sort of sources exist. The club?  Not so much.  Doesn't pass WP:ORG. Andrew Lenahan -  St ar bli nd  03:12, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete. This organization has not established notability under WP:ORG, which is difficult for fraternities or sororities to accomplish with only a single chapter. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 05:29, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
 * The question is how much time to give an organization to establish notability by citing appropriate sources. Should the page be moved into a the creator's space (not public) until they can establish notability?  Certainly, there very fact that Wikipedia has a stub tag indicates that not all pages that go up are immediately clearly notable.--Lhakthong (talk) 00:11, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I see the use of the stub tag somewhat differently. To me, an article is appropriate to be kept as a stub if it indicates why the subject is notable, but does not cover the subject adequately for encyclopedic detail. In this case, I'm not even sure this article establishes notability for the subject. There may be sources out there, but it doesn't seem to me that one-chapter fraternities are likely to receive much coverage in reliable independent sources, since they are small, private organizations. But I could be wrong about the extent of the coverage. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 04:33, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.