Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Altan concert tours


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Shimeru (talk) 23:37, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Altan concert tours

 * – ( View AfD View log  •  )

This article is pure WP:FANCRUFT. It cites no sources and therefore fails WP:RS. Wiki is neither an indiscriminate collection of information nor a directory, and something merely being true - in this case that Altan put on these shows - is not enough to warrant inclusion. —  Hello Annyong  (say whaaat?!) 19:37, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 22:46, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 22:46, 11 March 2010 (UTC)


 * I think that the wikipedia article Altan concert tours is a relevant and useful article such as Rolling Stones concerts, List of The Beatles' live performances or Paul McCartney's concert tours articles and many other articles about other artists' concert tours ! Altan is a famous irish traditional music band who deserves such article! I spent hours to build this Altan concert tours article: it would be unfair to delete it! Lurulu (talk) 21:56, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment: This isn't a fan site. We have criteria for what should and should not be included. As a side note, I see that you also created Capercaillie concert tours, which was deleted. It's the same thing here. —  Hello Annyong  (say whaaat?!) 01:52, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Info can easily be found elsewhere. Airplaneman  talk 19:31, 19 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment: No : Info CANNOT easily be found elsewhere! Lurulu (talk) 07:48, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, JForget  00:53, 20 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.

 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, JForget  00:58, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.


 * Delete Save it for the fanwank. I mean, fansites. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • (Many otters • One bat • One hammer) 01:04, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete per "Thou shalt not tolerate an Inclusionist to include worthless screed, lest we become a Uncyclopedia." (GregJackP (talk) 02:05, 27 March 2010 (UTC))
 * This is not helpful at all, I suggest you refactor your comments. It is inappropriate to disparage those that have a different view than you personally do. Okip  03:11, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Would it help if I linked to the site I pulled the quote from? It is from a humorous article on Wikimedia about deletionists. It was not intended to offend, I thought it was humorous. In any event, the article should go. (GregJackP (talk) 01:49, 31 March 2010 (UTC))
 * Keep Altan is a major band. This article is a spinoff from the main article section Altan (band) and so the worst case is that we'd just merge back into that section.  But this would not be sensible as their extensive touring makes the schedule somewhat lengthy and it seems reasoble to have it as an appendix.  The tours are covered in numerous sources and referencing these is just a matter of routine article improvement in accordance with our editing policy. Colonel Warden (talk) 23:36, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment: But just because the band is notable doesn't mean that all of their tours are also inherently notable. And just because it's verifiable that they went on tour doesn't necessarily mean it gets included. Why do we need a listing of every single show the band ever played? Isn't that what the band's website - or some other third party website - is for? —  Hello Annyong  (say whaaat?!) 23:40, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
 * All our content is based upon material found elsewhere - this is an essential consequence of our core policy WP:NOR. Your argument is therefore contrary to this core policy and so is invalid.   Moeover, touring is a fundamental part of the work of such a band as it consumes much of their effort and provides much of their revenue.  The composition of the band and their repertoire during these tours will naturally be a significant part of their history and so deleting this completely is not sensible. Colonel Warden (talk) 00:05, 29 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Keep A band this notable has its tours get mentioned in the news media, obviously. The Google News search at the top of the AFD, will show over a thousand results for "Altan" and "tour". These articles talk about various tours they have been on.  You can search for the country "Japan" to learn about their Japanese tours, and so on.  This is perfectly encyclopedic content, and it wouldn't all fit in the main article for the band, so best to put it in a side article here.  Once more we have rude deletionists not bothering to take a few moments to even look for reliable sources, just declaring at a glance something is worthless, stating it should be deleted, and then rampaging off to another article to do the same.   D r e a m Focus  02:57, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment: On WP:NMG, it says that "Concert tours are notable if they have received significant coverage in independent reliable sources. Such coverage might show notability in terms of artistic approach, financial success, relationship to audience, or other such terms. Sources which merely establish that a tour happened are not sufficient to demonstrate notability." Just because there are sources to show that the band went on tour a bunch of times does not mean that there should be a list article that lists every single show the band ever played. This isn't a fansite, it's an encyclopedia. But you're right that there are sources, but their tours would be better summarized on the Altan article in the Tours section. —  Hello Annyong  (say whaaat?!) 03:09, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
 * What about the Washington Post article titled "At Wolf Trap, Altan Wraps U.S. Tour With a Flourish". A major newspaper calling it a flourish  would certainly make it notable.  They played at Harvard university to great reviews.  If you only mention the tours that got great reviews, and that was a fair number of them, too much to fit well on the main page, would you be against this page existing?   D r e a m Focus  04:34, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment: In the ideal world, this article would really just be a top-level list of tours, and each tour would have its own article complete with background, development, response, reception, that sort of thing. In that way, the articles themselves assert their notability, and this page is a wrapper for all of them. But assuming an unideal world, I would want this article to be more than just a set of tour dates. Merely being a list of tour dates is just unacceptable to me, as I think it violates WP:NOTDIR. And again, I'm not saying that there isn't valuable information out there, and I would definitely want to include it where it's appropriate. The article you mentioned above would be more at home as a paragraph in Altan (band). —  Hello Annyong  (say whaaat?!) 14:31, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Weak Delete: the only real source so far is http://www.mfyi.com/a/altantourography.html which either means the page is redundant to that (in which case, yes the information can be found elsewhere) or it fails WP:V. Cites or it didn't happen (i.e., either fix it, or scrap it).  --Geoff Capp (talk) 01:30, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete as the list is not the subject of any reliable, third party sources in accordance with WP:BURDEN. There needs to be reliable form of external validation to provide a rationale for inclusion, otherwise this list fails WP:NOT. --Gavin Collins (talk|contribs) 08:25, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep The aforementioned page http://www.mfyi.com/a/altantourography.html may disappear some day ! Besides, it's not complete: it doesn't list all Altan tours dates!!! Lurulu (talk) 09:50, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment: previously left a comment at 21:56 on 12 March 2010. —  Hello Annyong  (say whaaat?!) 14:02, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.