Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Altay Kahraman


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. (non-admin closure) Ron Ritzman (talk) 01:04, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Altay Kahraman

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Player fails notability at WP:ATHLETE having never played in a fully-professional league/competition Hubschrauber729 (talk) 19:38, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete fails WP:ATHLETE --Angelo (talk) 21:03, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football related deletions. GiantSnowman 22:08, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete fails WP:ATHLETE. GiantSnowman 22:08, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep on new research that shows he has played in fully-pro league, and therefore passes WP:ATHLETE. GiantSnowman 16:04, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete fails WP:ATHLETE --Drawn Some (talk) 22:16, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep - according to source 1 and source 2 he played two matches in the Swiss Super League which is fully professional according to the Wikiproject Football list. Seems to meet WP:Athlete. Camw (talk) 23:55, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Weak keep - passes WP:ATHLETE through about 30 minutes of play in a fully-pro league. Articles like these make me wonder if WP:ATHLETE should be revisited. Jogurney (talk) 04:24, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * That's suggested all the time, but nobody can come up with a workable alternative. To rely solely on coverage in sources would be hopelessly biased in favour of players from the last ten years or so, to specify a minimum number of fully professional games played would be arbitrary and OR, and so on...... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 10:18, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment to me the subject still fails WP:N. My opinion is that all subjects with an article should at least meet WP:N (but not all subjects meeting WP:N are actually worth an article). WP:N gives you the tool to establish presumption of notability: if no presumption is actually present, then WP:ATHLETE alone is not enough, and I think this is one of such cases. --Angelo (talk) 07:19, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Weak Delete. He may have three appearances (including one start and a disallowed goal for offside) to his name, but as far as I can tell these were only in friendly matches so I'm not sure whether that's enough to pass WP:ATHLETE or not. According to FC Aarau's website, he's still on their U21 squad so there is still time for this youngster to make more appearances, meaning this article could be deleted now and recreated if and when he makes his first team debut.  Bettia   (bring on the trumpets!)  08:46, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep He played in the Swiss Super League and our article on that says "The Swiss Super League or Axpo Super League is the top tier of the Swiss Football League." (in other words, highest level of the sport one can reach.) Whether the matches were friendlies is irrelevant. The guidelines don't mention any such restriction. - Mgm|(talk) 09:44, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment well, friendly matches are not part of a league, they are just friendly matches, which are non-competitive and do not award points or qualification to some competition. He just played a number of friendly midweek matches, which are completely irrelevant to the league. --Angelo (talk) 11:14, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * He definitely played in two league matches during July 2006 (per the Guardian's Stats Centre source in the article). There is no question the article passes WP:ATHLETE. The only question is whether to apply it here since this person has played so little professional sport. Jogurney (talk) 13:11, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * If only he had started in one of those matches, this'd be an easy choice and I would quite happily !vote to keep this. But because they were only sub appearances totalling slightly more than half-an-hour, it makes it much less straightforward. I think you're right about WP:ATHLETE, it certainly needs revising to clarify situations like this. Bettia   (bring on the trumpets!)  14:06, 8 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep - He has played two matches in the top-flight of Switzerland. Passes WP:ATHLETE, doesn't matter if he was a sub in both those appearances. The fact is, he played! John Sloan @ 19:55, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Living people-related deletion discussions. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 00:07, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep - meets WP:ATHLETE with his professional appearances. Nfitz (talk) 04:37, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep. His played in the Swiss Super League which is notable enough.  Turco  85 ( Talk ) 18:00, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep one second of playing notable football made him notable. --Dweller (talk) 09:50, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.