Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Alternative folk


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. (non-admin closure)  Arun Kumar SINGH (Talk)  12:23, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

Alternative folk

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No explanation what this music in fact is. Only source is a commercial link, but none of the 7 articles I have checked point to this music style. Possibly just a sorting music style, not a real one The Banner talk 14:30, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. North America1000 16:47, 3 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Redirect to Indie folk, which doesn't rely on iTunes categories as sources. Then we can fight about deleting that, since it's sourced to a single blog on about.com. I personally agree that this genre is "common knowledge" but there should be some critiques or something to confirm that. 157.235.66.80 (talk) 20:55, 3 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Keep 'Alternative folk' is a legitimate genre that is mentioned/discussed in multiple sources; think Bob Dylan, as in "Best known for his early hits such as Blowin' in the Wind and Like a Rolling Stone, Dylan was a key member of the Sixties alternative folk movement...". At the moment this is a title in search of text, but  the sources are out there. — Neonorange (talk) 01:42, 4 November 2016 (UTC)
 * An alternative folk movement is not necessarily the same as alternative folk as music genre. The Banner talk 09:47, 6 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Comment—before we get too far into the weeds, I'd like to point out that The New York Times, Billboard, and allmusic.com, once published as All Music Guide, ("While contemporary folk often retains the gentleness of its more traditional parent, alternative folk combines acoustic sounds and a strong singer-songwriter bent with a more energetic, aggressive sound.", all discuss "alternative folk music" in contemporary articles. The genre exists, and is discussed as such. Improving the article is a matter of accessing books of music criticism. — Neonorange (talk) 18:56, 6 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I hope that you do not mind that I am unconvinced by a non-existing link. The Banner talk 15:33, 6 November 2016 (UTC)
 * No, I don't mind:
 * Robbie Woliver in The New York Times (Stepping Out of Dylan's Shadow—"Like many contemporary folk musicians, Dan Bern has been saddled with a curse: the singer-songwriter has been deemed the new Bob Dylan. For alternative-folk fans who do not have a historic perspective, the comparisons are well-grounded.")
 * Reggie Ugwu in Billboard (Angel Olsen Breaks Down Her Smoldering New Jagjaguwar Debut—"Olsen, the 26-year-old alternative folk singer, is about to release the best album of her career so far, but she’d rather not think too much about that. She writes as much for her own personal wellbeing as she does for anyone else, a subtle distinction that you can hear in her music. Olsen’s songs, often dealing with themes of emotional isolation and self-reliance, tend to rise and converge like the billowing smoke of a stubborn fire.")
 * allmusic.com, once published as All Music Guide ("While contemporary folk often retains the gentleness of its more traditional parent, alternative folk combines acoustic sounds and a strong singer-songwriter bent with a more energetic, aggressive sound.")
 * WP:Articles for deletion. — Neonorange (talk) 18:56, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Keep. They are overlapping but different  genres. Usingthe example just above, I don't see how anyone could have called Dylan "indie". DGG ( talk ) 03:59, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 14:25, 14 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Comment. This seems to have the same problem as a lot of the 'genre' articles we have, in that the term 'alternative folk' does not refer to a distinct coherent genre (or sub-genre), it's just a term that has been used somewhat inconsistently through the years. As a result, we are never likely to have even a satisfactory article, so I would recommend redirecting somewhere, perhaps to Contemporary folk music. --Michig (talk) 19:08, 14 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Plenty of music criticism that discusses folk music using the term "alternative folk" exists—over fifty years of it. A redirect to an essentially empty section of an article like Contemporary folk music which links to Wikipedia articles on those genres seems to be a bit a circular. This article can be developed—it took me only a few minutes to find three reliable, useful sources (which I listed above), and to add a cited lead sentence to it—in fact, for me, using Wiki–syntax properly took longer than finding and reading the sources. 'Alternative folk' is discussed in WP:RS to such an extent that it is notable. — Neonorange (talk) 01:26, 15 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Keep There are some folk songs (or bands) that simultaneously have elements of Latin, folk and electronic. The term "alternative folk" can take care of that. -User:Meganesia (talk) 12:28, 15 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep: but man oh man, does this article need work. Montanabw (talk) 19:52, 15 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete - I don't actually know if this should be deleted, but this looks to be headed for a WP:SNOW keep when I haven't seen even one single reliable source providing significant coverage of this subject. You can find usage for [alternative/indie/neo/new/classic/alt-] + [any genre]. 137k hits for alternative jazz, 50k hits for indie classical, 900k hits for indie alternative, 28k for alternative disco... Some of those hits may be in reliable sources, even, but usage does not an encyclopedic topic make. Every genre that has a typical sound has an "alternative" when someone wants to describe a member of the genre that breaks from some typical aspect, and every genre that has a "mainstream" has an "indie". Sometimes those genres aren't just used but written about. Those may well exist for "alternative folk", but I haven't seen it. &mdash;  Rhododendrites talk  \\ 00:39, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep --- This is a legit genre. Mystic Technocrat (talk) 14:42, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep - this is a real genre, discussed in many possible places online in reliable sources. The article is not so bad it has to be destroyed. Bearian (talk) 20:24, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
 * And do you have any sources or are you just waving with some pages? The Banner talk</i> 21:28, 17 November 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.