Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Amal Ghandour


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. The subject is mentioned in passing in several sources but in the course of this discussion only one independent, reliable source has been identified provides anything close to significant coverage. Based on that, and the !votes (only one editor is in favour of keeping, other contributors to the discussion favour deleting), I find that there is a clear consensus to delete. WaggersTALK  09:53, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

Amal Ghandour

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

A non-notable author, who wrote a non-notable book about a non-notable person and worked at non-notable companies (went to notable universities but that's it). Abysmally fails GNG and the subject specific guidelines too. A BEFORE search only turned up non-independent sources, or a passing mention in a press release by some organisation she was on the board of. Mako001 (C) (T)  🇺🇦 09:18, 15 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Authors and Lebanon. Mako001 (C)  (T)  🇺🇦 09:18, 15 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Delete Agree with nom; no signs of notability found in search. WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 20:17, 15 August 2022 (UTC)
 * do not delete, Not Agreed. The books and articles the author wrote were published in several notable platforms such as MidanMasr and Aeon. Her books were reviewed by renowned authors such as Tarek Baconi, Raja Shehadeh, Peter Harling, Ahdaf Soueif, Christopher Dickey, Matthew Mosley and Philip Mansel 2A01:9700:10C2:F300:C41:E267:B373:CA1 (talk) 08:43, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Do you have links to those reviews? I found Mansel's quote on Amazon, but it reads like a blurb and has no date or publication. Some of the author authors you list are also listed as giving "Advance Praise" https://amalghandour.com/this-arab-life/ Unless these blurbs are quotes from a published independent review, they're not useful to establish notability. Vexations (talk) 11:07, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * The reviews of American Journalist Christopher Dickey (who has a Wikipedia page) and Journalist Matthew Mosley are published in several independent reviews, please see the following links: [Http://thetanjara.blogspot.com/2009/05/book-on-ali-al-habri-awakens-painful.html http://thetanjara.blogspot.com/2009/05/book-on-ali-al-habri-awakens-painful.html] and [Https://www.newsweek.com/secret-life-arab-artist-ali-jabri-77299 https://www.newsweek.com/secret-life-arab-artist-ali-jabri-77299]
 * This link combines the views of the author Amal Ghandour and that of Ahdaf Soueif : http://socialdifferenceonline.org/116/
 * Other reviews: https://acrobat.adobe.com/link/review?uri=urn:aaid:scds:US:c50d183c-96cc-3731-9caa-075d4f39320f, https://acrobat.adobe.com/link/review?uri=urn:aaid:scds:US:af1a05e7-616d-3a87-b29e-0684ff1a6eed
 * Other reviews such as that of Matthew Mosley and Philip Mansel are on the cover of the book, I can provide a picture of it. Nourlyna 98 (talk) 01:20, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I second the request for links to the reviews. Google books (This Arab Life, About This Man Called Ali) lists no reviews for either book. WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 13:39, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * The reviews of American Journalist Christopher Dickey (who has a Wikipedia page) and Journalist Matthew Mosley are published in several independent reviews, please see the following links: [1]http://thetanjara.blogspot.com/2009/05/book-on-ali-al-habri-awakens-painful.html and [2]https://www.newsweek.com/secret-life-arab-artist-ali-jabri-77299
 * This link combines the views of the author Amal Ghandour and that of Ahdaf Soueif : http://socialdifferenceonline.org/116/
 * Other reviews: https://acrobat.adobe.com/link/review?uri=urn:aaid:scds:US:c50d183c-96cc-3731-9caa-075d4f39320f, https://acrobat.adobe.com/link/review?uri=urn:aaid:scds:US:af1a05e7-616d-3a87-b29e-0684ff1a6eed
 * Other reviews such as that of Matthew Mosley and Philip Mansel are on the cover of the book, I can provide a picture of it Nourlyna 98 (talk) 12:08, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
 * https://thetanjara.blogspot.com/2009/05/book-on-ali-al-habri-awakens-painful.html was written by by "starbush" and self-published on blogger. Not written by Dickey, not published by a reputable publisher. It mentions that "A review by Matthew Mosley was published in the Beirut newspaper The Daily Star last Friday." but links to blogger, not the Daily Star. A search for https://www.thedailystar.net/search#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=%22Matthew%20Mosley%22&gsc.sort= yields nothing. Vexations (talk) 12:42, 18 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Comment: Even more content has been removed yet again for copyright violations. Please take that in consideration when looking at the article and its history. Sennecaster  ( Chat ) 05:30, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Why did it indicate copyright violations while the information provided wasn't identical to the one at https://amalghandour.com/about-amal-ghandour/ and it had the following copyrights note: The text and images of this website is released under the Creative Commons Zero Waiver 1.0 (CC0). Nourlyna 98 (talk) 12:08, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete No sign of notability. NMasiha (talk) 13:09, 18 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Comment on links provided by
 * "The Secret Life of an Arab Artist" (Newsweek) appears to be more a review of Ali Jabr's life than a review of Ghandour's biography.
 * On "Debating the ‘Woman Question’ in the New Middle East | Women’s Rights, Citizenship, and Social Justice" is an article written by The Columbia University Center for the Study of Social Difference, an organization of which Ghandour is a member, and reports on a seminar that Ghandour and others led. This is not an independent source.
 * "Life after Death: An Artist's Legacy" (Viva) is a scan of a magazine article (copyright issues?) about Ali Jabri. Ghandour is interviewed as knowledgeable on the subject, but this is not a review of her book.
 * "The Final Stroke" (Living Well) is both a profile of Ali Jabr and a review of Ghandour's work. I would accept this as a valid citation regarding reviews of Ghandour's work.
 * "Reviews" by Mansel and Mosley that appear on the book cover are not reviews at all, but are blurbs, and are generally paid endorsements of the book.
 * As already noted, "Book on ali al-jabri reawakens painful memories" is an anonymous Blogspot post. It purports to reference a review by Mosley in the Beirut The Daily Star, but the link leads back to the blogger.com home page, not the Daily Star website. A Google search for this review turned up nothing.
 * There's something here, but I'm still doubtful that it's enough to meet WP:NAUTHOR. WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 13:58, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much for the provided comments. please note the following:
 * 1. "The Secret Life of an Arab Artist" (Newsweek) written by Christopher Dickey, mentioned "what our good friend Amal Ghandour has given us in the telling of it is an account of love, loss, art and history in the Arab world as we've never really seen it before." referring to the book the author Amal Ghandour wrote. This is an independent review on the book she wrote about ALi Jabri entitled "About this man Called Ali"
 * 2. "Life after Death: An Artist's Legacy" mentions on page 4 "Viva also tracked down the author of About This Man Called Ali: The Purple Life of an Arab Artist, Amal Ghandour, Having tirelessly combed through Ali's journals, letters, work and interviews to research her book, she is arguably the world's foremost expert on Ali Jabri" this is a testimony of the book's richness and knowledgeability of the topic.
 * 3. Please check this independent review of Midanmasr on the author's biography [Http://www.midanmasr.com/en/writerArticles.aspx?writerID=49 http://www.midanmasr.com/en/writerArticles.aspx?writerID=49]
 * I hope that this is helpful Nourlyna 98 (talk) 14:50, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
 * http://www.midanmasr.com/en/writerArticles.aspx?writerID=49 says: "
 * Amal Ghandour achieved a BSFS from Georgetown University, a MS from Stanford University, and has over 16 years of experience in research and communications strategy. She is the author of About This Man Called Ali, published in 2009, and her blog can be found at http://thinkingfits.blogspot.com". That's not a review, that's an author bio. Those are typically written by the subject or their agent. The page links to http://www.midanmasr.com/en/article.aspx?ArticleID=88, which is is BY Ghandour, not about her. I am now satisfied that no reliable secondary sources that discuss Ghandour herself exist. Given the dearth of sources is not possible to create a neutral, factual article about the subject that says anything other than that she is the author of two books. Vexations (talk) 18:06, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Could you please check the other links I provided:
 * 1. "The Secret Life of an Arab Artist" (Newsweek) written by Christopher Dickey, mentioned "what our good friend Amal Ghandour has given us in the telling of it is an account of love, loss, art and history in the Arab world as we've never really seen it before." referring to the book the author Amal Ghandour wrote. This is an independent review on the book she wrote about ALi Jabri entitled "About this man Called Ali"
 * 2. "Life after Death: An Artist's Legacy" mentions on page 4 "Viva also tracked down the author of About This Man Called Ali: The Purple Life of an Arab Artist, Amal Ghandour, Having tirelessly combed through Ali's journals, letters, work and interviews to research her book, she is arguably the world's foremost expert on Ali Jabri" this is a testimony of the book's richness and knowledgeability of the topic. Nourlyna 98 (talk) 19:17, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I have. I added Newsweek as a source, remember? https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Amal_Ghandour&type=revision&diff=1104501186&oldid=1104493032&diffmode=source None of this is significant coverage about her. Nobody has ever written anything substantial about her, as far as I can tell. If significant coverage exists, show us where. Vexations (talk) 20:24, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
 * thank you so much for your feedback, I am trying to locate these sources, is what I provided so far enough to keep the article, meanwhile I am looking for more coverage about the author. Can I add a few details, such as her picture (the copyrights are provided in the website)? Nourlyna 98 (talk) 22:34, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Generally, no, you cannot simply take a photographer's work without their express permission, with some rare exceptions. See Copyrights Vexations (talk) 13:36, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
 * As I recall (I can't check right now; my work internet will not allow me to access her site), Ghandour's website is published under a Creative Commons.0 license (no copyright claim, complete public domain). I find this an odd choice for an author's website, as it does allow any to use the text and images found there in any manner they choose, but that is the choice Ghandour has made, so the images published there should be compatible with Commons licensing requirements. If Ghandour has published photographers' work under this license without their permission, that is her problem to sort out, not Wikipedia's. WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 13:57, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
 * It says both "The text and images of this website is released under the Creative Commons Zero Waiver 1.0 (CC0)." and "Copyright © 2022 Amal Ghandour" That's contradictory, because https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/ means whoever licensed that content has waived their copyrights. Now the work is both in the the public domain and not. It appears that the waiver is a recent addition. It wasn't there a couple of days ago. https://web.archive.org/web/20220815125405/https://amalghandour.com/about-amal-ghandour/
 * My patience is exhausted: Delete Vexations (talk) 15:27, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
 * do not delete I provided the necessary links as requested, I added the sources and copyrights are waived as mentioned in the website. There isn't anything that's spammy or against Wikipedia editing guidelines Nourlyna 98 (talk) 07:48, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
 * No you didn't provide[..] the necessary links as requested. You were am trying to locate these sources, but didn't. I'm happy to be proven wrong, but so far, there is no evidence that significant coverage in independent, reliable sources exist. Vexations (talk) 11:50, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
 * You've added the newsweek as a source, and it includes a review on her book by Christopher Dickey Nourlyna 98 (talk) 17:32, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I have their permission, how to express it? Nourlyna 98 (talk) 06:57, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi, I have the author's permission to publish her photo and also the website mentions "The text and images of this website is released under the Creative Commons Zero Waiver 1.0 (CC0)." Nourlyna 98 (talk) 07:06, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
 * do not delete I provided the necessary links as requested, I added the sources and copyrights are waived as mentioned in the website. There isn't anything that's spammy or against Wikipedia editing guidelines Nourlyna 98 (talk) 07:48, 20 August 2022 (UTC)

I suspect the CC0 tag was added after prior spammy content was marked as a copyright violation. It does lead to a confusing situation! WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 16:20, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
 *  do not delete  I provided the necessary links as requested, I added the sources and copyrights are waived as mentioned in the website. There isn't anything that's spammy or against Wikipedia editing guidelines. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nourlyna 98 (talk • contribs) 07:03, 20 August 2022 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.