Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Amaranth Games (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   Keep and rename. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Marasmusine (talk • contribs)

Amaranth Games
AfDs for this article: 
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CSD and prod tags have been removed by a primary editor of the article, taking it to AFD to get a consensus... There is a single reliable reference, to a state website showing that that paperwork was filed for incorporation of the company. Of the remaining 31 references. 8 are from primary sources (the company website), 5 are broken links and the remainder are unreliable sources such as blogs, message boards and one to a company selling music from the games.

There is a single english and a single Chinese Google News hit on the company name. This article just doesn't seem to pass the WP:N test of significant coverage in reliable 3rd party sources. Rtphokie (talk) 12:26, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:CORP. Besides, a game company with no notable games can't possibly be notable in itself.  Also has a slightly spammy / promotional tone. Andrew Lenahan -  St ar bli nd  12:56, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of video game related deletion discussions. MrKIA11 (talk) 12:57, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Split Notable Games out then Delete - Secondary Sources mentioning the company either make only trivial mentions or interview the owner directly, not enough to satisfy WP:V nor WP:CORP. However, some of the games (Aveyond and Aveyond2 from a cursory search, possibly more) listed in the article actually do have enough third-party coverage to satisfy the WP:GNG through sources in scope with WikiProject VideoGames and warrant their own articles (currently all redirected to Amaranth Games). Suggest splitting games passing the GNG out under WP:PRESERVE before deleting the nom article. MLauba (talk) 14:12, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Add Comment: To put money where my mouth is, I'm willing to take the article in my user space for the purpose of splitting out the games that can be salvaged if a consensus to this effect is being reached. MLauba (talk) 14:16, 10 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Rename Aveyond series and keep As Winston Churchill once said "excessive merging farts in the mouth of progress". Amaranth Games = Amanda Fitch. Amanda Fitch is known for the Aveyond series, the almost-but-not-quite notable time management games here are just muddying the waters, neither they nor the entity Amanrath Games need an article. The original Aveyond has reviews on Ace Gamez (8 year old review site where submissions go through the editor), Grrl Gamer (10 year old site specializing in women gamers' points of view), Gamezebo (a good reliable site anyway, but also by Marc Saltzman) and Game Chronicles (13 years young). Aveyond 2 has its own Gamezebo review (Erin Bell) and was a runner up in Game Tunnel's indie RPG of the year 2007 awards with some useful reception info. Aveyond 3 is due in May. Has scads more potential than this mish-mash. Someoneanother 14:42, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Seconded & Proposal I went ahead and did just that, would appreciate input on This sandbox construction as the new article. MLauba (talk) 15:14, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment Ahriman's Prophecy has a short review on Download.com and a larger review on Game Tunnel. Game Tunnel is a well-established indie game site, which covered these things long before most sites even bothered, and all the content goes through founder Russell Carroll. Carroll is a game director for Reflexive Entertainment, not some random schmoe, his experience in both developing and reporting on games in this area isn't to be sniffed at. I'd suggest merging all the release dates etc. into one infobox if the article is to remain a combination of all the games. Someoneanother 15:48, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Addressed the infoboxes issue. The GameTunnel Review is already in there, regarding the download.com one I'm more skeptical about it's viability as an RS (no mentions on the reliable sources noticeboard archives that I could find). Any more input? And do of course not hesitate to tamper with the sandbox if you can. MLauba (talk) 16:37, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * It's part of CNET Networks which was recently merged into CBS Interactive, and stable mates with GameSpot. Download.com's reviews are infrequent and never exhaustive, which is probably why nobody's falling over themselves to have them listed as RSs. The editor's opinion ultimately tracks back to CBS so I can't see a problem in using it as a source in this capacity. Someoneanother 16:54, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment Hi, this is Amanda, owner of Amaranth Games, LLC. I'm not familiar with how to add something, so hopefully I'm doing this right... I have several dedicated fans who put up this page on Wikipedia and they've recently alerted me that someone is trying to have it removed. I'm not sure if it matters, but no one from my company has ever added anything to this article. It is completely maintained by fans. I'm not quite sure how the rules work here, but if you need reliable sources for anything, please list them and I'll find them for you. Our games have won several casual games awards and have been listed in several magazine articles. Our games have been number one, and top-ten hits on most casual game portals. I don't do as many interviews these days, which may be why a number of articles are old. I'm not sure where all of these references for deletion are... I'll look for them. My company has been an LLC for two years now. -Amanda —Preceding unsigned comment added by Astarah (talk • contribs) 22:33, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment The way things stand now, the article for Amaranth Games is being challenged because there are not enough reliable, independent 3rd party sources who have written, substantially, about Amaranth. When Wikipedia talks about "notability", it really means that a subject has been noted and commented upon sufficiently to help write and maintain a neutral and verifiable article here. At present, and from what sources could be found, Amaranth Games LLC doesn't pass this hurdle but several of your games do. If you do have additional articles or references for Amaranth Games itself, please post them here. If you have additional sources for Gaea Fallen, Grimm's Hatchery or Yummy Drink Factory, please post them to my talk page instead. Thanks. MLauba (talk) 08:15, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment If the article is kept, it's got to have some better references. The sandbox link above is a better article but it is still relies to heavily on blogs for references.  Kudos to User:Astarah offering assistance instead of getting into COI issues.--Rtphokie (talk) 01:14, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep The page needs cleanup in a bad way but there is info about the company on IGN, games are available for purchase from Amazon, and games have been featured at the IGF. Kagetto (talk) 15:17, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Rename Aveyond series and keep this is a good proposal.  Judging from WP:VG/S the references there are actually reliable despite appearances and may be as good as we can get on this subject.--Rtphokie (talk) 18:39, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Rename Aveyond series and cleanup Games do seem to have some notability.--Sloane (talk) 21:22, 11 March 2009 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.