Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Amaryllis Knight (3rd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   merge to Falcon Motorcycles. (non-admin closure) — Theo polisme  05:01, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

Amaryllis Knight
AfDs for this article: 
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Non notable designer. Has co-founded a motorcycle company, but is not a motorcycle designer. Has invested in a restaurant, but is not a chef or restauranteur. Otherwise had done very little to meet either the general notability for a biography or specific notability for an artist/designer. Biker Biker (talk) 19:17, 11 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep Knight has been the subject of multiple published secondary sources which are reliable, intellectually independent of each other, and independent of the subject, such as The Los Angeles Times, Architectural Digest, Dazed and Confused, and other articles cited. Most of these cited articles have recently been removed by user Biker Biker, but they exist in the article history. Knight and her company has received multiple well-known and significant awards and she is regarded as an important figure in her field of custom motorcycles, cited by peers and press alike. Notability also extends across multiple professions, including restaurants and television.HaeckelLight (talk) 19:37, 11 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Merge to Falcon Motorcycles and we can do the same with Ian Barry. For a start, there's some very strange sock-puppet-like activity going on here. The history of this article is littered with contributions from SPAs who just happen to be interested only in this subject, her partner and their business and a few other "random" things. Several of them voted in previous AFDs and no-one seems to have picked up the link. On the subject herself - I accept that the sources provided contribute to the notability of her company, but the suggestion that each of the company, this subject and her partner are all independently notable (without crashing into WP:INHERIT) is a bit silly as far as I'm concerned. Pick one, focus on that and include a paragraph on each of the founders. You can include the few individual things they've done there. As an example of what I mean, have a look at the excellent and detailed biography of Michael Jackson's doctor, Conrad Murray. Stalwart 111  04:53, 12 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Businesspeople-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 17:30, 12 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Merge to Falcon Motorcycles. This is a very successful case of paid publicity, both paid editing on Wikipedia and astroturfed media publicity. Read the sources for Ian Barry and Falcon Motorcycles and Amaryllis Knight. Knight is a wealthy celebutante, from a family of media moguls. She's done an amazing job of showing up where there are cameras around to make it appear that she's done something. In fact, she's a person of zero accomplishments, other than writing checks to Ian Barry (notable for building all of three -- three! -- custom motorcycles) so that he can buy up very rare and valuable old motorcycles and send the parts out to be plated in gold. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 15:52, 12 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Dennis Bratland A lot of assumptions going on there! I don't see any photos online of Knight, or evidence of her trying to position herself in front of cameras, the only photos I can see online are of her and Barry accepting awards at motorcycle shows, and are published by online motorcycle magazines covering the events. Where did you find information about her being someone of zero accomplishments - how do you know what she has or hasn't accomplished? How do you know she is wealthy? I have been fans of Knight, and her husband Ian Barry's work, and know two of the owners of their bikes in Los Angeles. You can be assured that the checks being written are by paying customers, rather than by Knight, many of the customers are public figures and there are many verifiable sources that state who they are, so what made you assume she is writing checks to Barry? I can't see where there is evidence of her being a celebutante, nor from a family of media moguls. It looks like her mother was an architect and works for an NGO that she founded, and her sisters are novelists. The press they have received is in world renowned, highly respected publications, "editorials" - not paid press, and all in publications that are the direct competitors of her father's news corporation connection. Barry has indeed made three motorcycles, each of which took him over a year to design, engineer, and build. How many people do that; actually design and make their own motorcycles, rather than customizing a factory made bike? There is good reason why Barry and Knight have a large fan base which includes editors and journalists in global periodicals and national newspapers, and judges at motorcycle concours and shows, who feature them regularly and have given them awards for each of their bikes (do you assume those are rigged too?). The restaurant they co-own with Josef Centeno is both Esquire and Bon Apetite best restaurant in the country 2012, I eat there often. I tried to include that information on their pages, but it was repeatedly deleted by Biker Biker. I re-wrote their articles because I looked them up to explore potential recent news, and saw their wikipedia articles were previously poorly sourced, had broken links, and were terribly written. They hadn't been updated in about a year. I am not paid by Knight or Barry (another assumption), and spent quite some time finding the correct sources and making sure that the articles were neutral. Both you and Biker Biker proceeded to remove all of the links and information despite them being from extremely reputable third party sources, and then nominated both articles for deletion, along with hugely assumptive, snarky sounding remarks. Is this kind of behavior wikipedia supports? This doesn't seem responsible, or conducive to advancement of the wikipedia philosophy and community. Perhaps you shouldn't be weighing in on subjects that you are unable to stay neutral about. If you have any evidence of any of the matters you have stated as fact, please show them to us. Otherwise, allow people who follow their story, and who have an understanding of them and what they do, to edit the articles. As a fan of Barry and Knight, my vote is keep: They are widely respected and published in the global custom motorcycle and design community. HaeckelLight (talk) 22:19, 12 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Merge to Falcon Motorcycles. I think that is the best course. I am not enamoured of non-notable people who receive too much coverage in reliable secondary sources. Applying a black and white standard of notability doesn't always yield the best result, but it is what we have. --Bejnar (talk) 05:46, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.