Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Amatory


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep.  MBisanz  talk 04:55, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Amatory

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The page gives no indication of the band's notability. They have no page on allmusic, highlighting their obscurity. It should be noted: the proposed deletion was removed incorrectly by a user with the reasoning that five releases equates notability. However, the WP:Music guideline states that they must be releases on notable record labels, which none of Amatory's have been. Prophaniti (talk) 09:27, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
 * CommentI think the second ext link may be an equivalent site, but it is apparently in Russian, so I can't say. Did you check with a bilingual user?  Tealwisp (talk) 09:30, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep Never heard of the act but the Russian wikipedia entry tells me via google translation that the band is a multiple winner of the Russian Rock Alternative Music Prize (RAMP). The Russian wikipedia entry for that award tells me via google translation that the award is broadcast annually on A-ONE TV. Further search with google indicates that the award show has attracted headliners as well-known as Marilyn Manson and Korn. All that sounds notable enough to me per criteria 8 of WP:MUSIC. Allmusic is hardly a good indication of the notability or lack thereof for bands outside the Anglosphere. --Bardin (talk) 10:46, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep Well known band, http://www.ozon.ru/context/detail/id/3464613/ --ssr (talk) 12:45, 8 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Russia-related deletion discussions.   -- • Gene93k (talk) 11:37, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions.   -- • Gene93k (talk) 11:37, 8 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Okay, well let's take a look over what you have: The headlining acts thing itself doesn't really count, if they were headlining a major event it might, but being headlined by big names itself doesn't.
 * The broadcast via A-ONE TV might come under "Has been placed in rotation nationally by any major radio network.", it would depend on the notability of A-ONE TV. What can you provide on that station?
 * The RAMP award also might come under "Has won or placed in a major music competition", again it would entirely depend on the notability of that particular award.
 * I'd suggest seeing what you can find on those two, to determine if they count. Prophaniti (talk) 12:18, 8 December 2008 (UTC)


 * ssr: Please elaborate. It's no good just linking to a foreign language site and saying "Well known. End of." Prophaniti (talk) 13:22, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
 * The website is Ozon.ru, the most popular Russian online retailer. Amatory is a popular alternative rock band, similar to Kirpichi. --ssr (talk) 15:00, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, thanks for the explanation. However, that wouldn't meet the criteria, just as a band appearing on amazon.com wouldn't make it notable. Prophaniti (talk) 16:48, 8 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Strong keep. I confirm that Amatory is a well-known band. It wons several awards, including RAMP award (passes #8-9), published several albums, it enjoys heavy radio rotation (on major Russian federal stations, such as Nashe Radio) and appearances on major Russian federal TV channels (such as MTV or STS) (passes #10). Since 2005, they're produced by a well-known Danish alternative producer Jacob Hansen. Last, Amatory article has several interwikis (in languages of countries they're popular in). As it was mentioned above, Allmusic is hardly a good coverage for any non-English-speaking musical acts. As for news, sources and published coverage - there's more than plenty - just look at, for example - there are 277 news items and 51 interviews. --GreyCat (talk) 18:42, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, as I've already said above: what's needed is indicators of exactly why those facts pass the criteria. In other words, is the RAMP award significant? are the Russian stations they appear on significant? Can you provide sources showing their appearance on big TV channels?
 * If these stations/awards/TV stations do indeed qualify as significant, then all is well, and they simply need significant improvement. But that needs to be properly shown first. It's not enough for users to simply say these things are enough. It must be shown, objectively. Prophaniti (talk) 19:13, 8 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Keep. Passes WP:MUSIC, C7 or C9 for the award wins.   Esradekan Gibb    "Talk" 21:00, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
 * As has been said, only if the significance of those awards can be shown. Prophaniti (talk) 21:46, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

To keep this all up to date: a couple of days now and still it hasn't been settled. Users still need to show evidence that the radio stations/TV stations they've been on OR the awards they've won are significant and notable. The guidelines on notability don't just say "If they've been on radio/TV" or "If they've won some kind of award". So that in itself is -not- enough.

I'm perfectly happy to accept they are notable and simply in need of improvement. But what has been provided thus far is not in itself sufficient. Prophaniti (talk) 13:46, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep This interview indicates the band has played in various former Soviet republics, Estonia, Latvia, and Finland. I've introduced it to the article. As other contributors have noted, the RAMP is regarded as a major prize; from a translation of the Russian Wikipedia article on A-One, the event appears similar in importance to the MTV EMAs. We must also be careful to avoid cultural bias. My understanding (and it may be totally wrong) is that most music in Russia is distributed outside the structure of record labels and stores that are familiar to Western eyes. I don't regard the absence of an Allmusic profile as indicative of non-notability, though I do regard the presence of one as an indicator of notability. From all this, it appears the band passes all or some of criteria 4, 5, 8, and 11 of WP:MUSICBIO. CJPargeter (talk) 10:15, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you, CJP, for including reasoning. Would you be able to provide translated quotes/exceprts from the Russian Wiki articles, provided they're sourced? I'm not doubting you, I'd simply like to see what the articles say, and the sources they cite. As to the interview, I'm not sure whether hardcoresounds.net counts as a good source, but that would seem to be nit-picking. So that would seem to pass #4, regarding the touring, I'd just like to close up the RAMP and A-One issue too. Prophaniti (talk) 13:23, 12 December 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.