Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/American Mastiff (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Mark Arsten (talk) 21:07, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

American Mastiff
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The last nomination of this article was closed as no consensus-no prejudice to renomination, nearly six months ago. I did not renominate it immediately in the hope that sources would materialize in that time, but no such luck - there are still no sources. 99% of the hits for "American Mastiff" turn up breeder sites, self-published material, obviously unreliable sources, mirrors of this page, and information on American Mastiff bats and English Mastiffs who happen to be American - for example, the 'American Mastiff Club' that appears in numerous Google books results has nothing to do with this breed; it is a club for american owners of English Mastiffs. This breed just flat-out isn't notable.  T K K  bark !  15:19, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Comment The best new references I could find were this book and this newspaper reference that would appear to indicate that one of the breed was shown in the 2007 Charleston Dog Show . My personal opinion is that this is borderline. 24.151.116.25 (talk) 16:09, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Comment: Just so you know, as far as the dog show, it was a canine good citizenship test, not a conformation show - the akc lets dogs of any breed participate, even mutts and unrecognized breeds, as the point is that "canine good citizens" have a certain amount of basic obedience training that makes them safe around kids. The breeds listed are whatever the owner put on the paperwork when they entered the testing. "All dogs, including both purebred and mixed breed dogs are welcome to participate in the AKC’s Canine Good Citizen (CGC) Program." As such, I wouldn't really say that the newspaper is too terribly reliable. I can't speak to Planet Dog at all, I don't know anything about it. --  T K K  bark  !  18:10, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the dog show info and I agree that if the breed info was self-reported the news article doesn't prove much. The book reference is clearly WP:RS, the publishing info and ISBN are in the article and Worldcat shows its at a number of libraries. Is one WP:RS entry enough? There are certainly web-based sources but I have no idea how independent any of them are, e.g., Dog Breed Info Center . I wouldn't rely on them unless we've demonstrated their reliability somewhere else in breed articles. 24.151.116.25 (talk) 18:39, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
 * On the specific question of Dog Breed Info Center I raised, this RfC pretty clearly came down as not WP:RS. Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Dogs/Archive_7. 24.151.116.25 (talk) 19:06, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
 * You beat me to it. WP:DOG actually removes DBI if we find it in articles; it's a weird hybrid of seo scrape and user-submitted content. -- T K K  bark !  19:07, 27 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Delete I gave it my best shot but I don't think that the one WP:RS reference I could come up with is enough significant coverage to satisfy WP:GNG. If anyone else finds more before this closes, I'd revisit. 24.151.116.25 (talk) 19:19, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Organisms-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:59, 28 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Delete - insufficient refs to prove this is anything but English Mastiffs that happen to live in America (or dare I suggest a very small handful of enterprising breeders using it to promote a cross breed?).  SagaciousPhil   -  Chat  12:15, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Just wanted to point out that the issue for deletion isn't whether its a breed or cross breed, as notable cross breeds can also be the subjects of articles, see, e.g., Labradoodle. American mastiffs just don't meet our notability standards in either case. 24.151.116.25 (talk) 16:58, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, 24.151...., what I was meaning is that IMO it completely fails WP:GNG as both a breed in its own right and as a cross/"designer" breed, so should be deleted.  SagaciousPhil   -  Chat  08:05, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.