Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/American coaches of foreign national soccer teams (3rd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. RL0919 (talk) 22:59, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

American coaches of foreign national soccer teams
AfDs for this article:


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Fails WP:GNG and WP:LISTCRUFT. The creator of this article has a history of making U.S.-centric fancruft (such as American professional soccer players abroad for example) and this one falls right in line with it. KingSkyLord (talk &#124; contribs) 05:04, 16 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists of people-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 06:39, 16 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 06:39, 16 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 09:20, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Delete per comments at previous AFDs. GiantSnowman 11:37, 16 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep. The article plainly meets WP:GNG. The article has 38 citations, and the references include U.S. reliable general interest media with high circulation, such as the New York Times, Washington Post, LA Times, Chicago Tribune, and Baltimore Sun. The references include internationally prominent non-American general interest media, such as the BBC, The Guardian, and Sydney Morning Herald. All this in addition to high-profile sports-centric non-soccer-focused news sources, such as ESPN, Sports Illustrated, Sporting News, Yahoo Sports. CUA 27 (talk) 17:58, 16 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Most of "the coverage" is just trivia and cherry-picking. (see WP:TRIVIA and WP:CHERRY) Only one of these sources talk exclusively about Americans coaches abroad (the tiny Soccer America one which is less than a paragraph). I could also cherry-pick parts from BBC articles about English managers abroad, but that is still not enough to justify an article about them. KingSkyLord (talk &#124; contribs) 21:13, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
 * TRIVIA deals with trivia sections within articles & CHERRY deals with addressing bias with an article — I don’t see how either applies to this article or this discussion.CUA 27 (talk) 20:39, 19 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep per CUA 27, passes WP:GNG as noted above clearly has WP:RS coverage.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 00:25, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete Lists don't just need RS to cite the individual items, they also need a valid reason as to why they should exist as a standalone list. Usually that means the list has been discussed as a whole by sources. I don't see that. This would be far better as just a category. This is pretty clear AmericaCruft. I don't see a list of Foreign coaches of American soccer teams, and fail to see how some Americans being in charge of a football team is somehow especially noteworthy. CaptainEek  Edits Ho Cap'n!⚓ 22:47, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete - I !voted weak keep on the first AfD, but after re-considering, the only SIGCOV of this concept is the short article from Soccer America. All of the other SIGCOV pertains to individuals, rather than the collective of American coaches managing other national teams. Jogurney (talk) 13:43, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Fenix down (talk) 21:57, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete. I have read the comments above carefully, and find myself most in agreement with those who believe that there should be a valid reason why such a standalone list should exist. I can't see, and no-one advocating for this article's retention has made, a clear case why this particular list is any more notable than (for example) "English coaches of foreign national soccer teams" or "American coaches of foreign national hockey teams", neither of which I could find as separate list articles. In certain cases, list articles can be very useful: a list of all alumni of a particular denominational school (to take a recent AfD case) can provide a useful way of quickly scanning for commonalities and differences between the people on the list. But I can't see how this list allows for that, since there are no articles in Wikipedia, nor any categories, identifying and discussing different coaching styles and how these might vary by nationality. There's no distinctiveness to American soccer coaching styles (or at least, none is adduced), so we simply have a disjointed list. Accordingly, I can't see a clear encyclopedic value for this list in current circumstances. RomanSpa (talk) 22:17, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete - there is a complete lack of coverage/analysis on these people together as an actual group, which is the requirement for lists such as these. Discussion of individual managers of national teams who also happen to be American does not add up to this being a notable topic Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 15:43, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete. AmericaCruft is just what this is. Also I dislike using "foreign" to mean "not American". If you're not American (as I am not) and if you live outside the USA (as I do) then "foreign" has other meanings and you don't see yourself as a foreigner.  Athel cb (talk) 09:03, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete WP:BIAS-cruft which has nothing to support that this is a notable group, thus also failing WP:LISTN, and reads rather like a clumsy juxtaposition of unrelated or only very trivially related factoids. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 20:19, 30 August 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.