Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Amrapali Jewels


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. After two full relistings, no consensus for a particular outcome has emerged herein. North America1000 05:20, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

Amrapali Jewels

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Fails WP:NCORP.Certainly quite popular among-st celebrities but I can't care less. &#x222F; WBG converse 14:22, 23 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Companies-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 16:10, 23 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 16:10, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Delete - strictly promotional article. Rogermx (talk) 16:11, 24 September 2018 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Kpg  jhp  jm  12:53, 30 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:SOAP. Callmemirela   talk 19:46, 30 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep per WP:HEY and WP:GNG. The promo issues have been fixed and reliable sources have been added. The Jewellery brand has stores in India, Pakistan, New York and London. The brand has in depth coverage across several mainstream newspapers such as Express Tribune, The Week UK, Daily News and Analysis, Outlook (magazine) and other sites.     The brand also operates a museum of Indian jewellery in Jaipur.  -- D Big X ray ᗙ  21:40, 1 October 2018 (UTC)


 * GNG is irrelevant, as to those entities that need to pass WP:NCORP.I guess the difference between NCORP and other SNGs are self-evident, as to the absence of certain phrases in NCORP:-)
 * We need intellectually independent reporting rather than verbatim statements that stems out from the mouth of the folks at helm.Fails WP:ORGIND.
 * Hardly any significant coverage about the company and covers the launching of a store.Fails WP:ORGDEPTH.
 * This fails both ORGIND and ORGDEPTH.Much of the statements about the company is sourced to the chief of their distribution-partner.Also colorful puffery like two young graduates with a passion for ancient history and a vision for re-introducing long forgotten jewellery designs and manufacturing techniques to the world hardly convince me any.
 * This is the sole one of some significance but the article is about a museum owned by the jewelry company.I fail to see how can it contribute to establish notability about the company-itself.
 * Best, &#x222F; WBG converse 16:38, 2 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Comment in addition to my Keep vote above, here are more in-depth sources from New York Times, calling it one of India’s largest jewelry houses The Hindu, Outlook (magazine) Livemint Deccan Chronicle New Indian Express  -- D Big X ray ᗙ  17:17, 2 October 2018 (UTC)
 * I think, an article on the museum is probably most-merited, than an article on the entire brand:-) &#x222F; WBG converse 03:40, 3 October 2018 (UTC)


 * The wide coverage of the one of India’s largest jewelry houses e.g. that spans a period of 40 years and makes this brand article a notable one, obviously merits its own article. -- D Big X ray ᗙ  09:27, 3 October 2018 (UTC)
 * WP:ORGIND. &#x222F; WBG converse 12:07, 3 October 2018 (UTC)
 * New york times is not a SPS, none of the sources listed above are WP:SPS, all are independent with coverage of the subject in great detail following WP:SIGCOV. -- D Big X ray ᗙ  00:34, 14 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete Keep !voters above do not appear to be fully familiar with the criteria for establishing notability. References should always be from reliable sources and must be intellectually independent. None of the sources mentioned pass WP:ORGIND as they are either based on company announcements or rely on quotations/interviews.
 * For example, the author of the Financial Express article shows that it is a syndicated piece from the Indo-Asian News Service with no named journalist - therefore arguably fails as a reliable source. The exact same article is also published by the Business Standard, Yahoo and lots of others. The first sentence says at its store here which indicates the article is based on the launch/company announcement and is therefore classified as "dependent coverage". Furthermore, a variant is published by Ind Today which includes much of the shorter article published by the Financial Express. It is noteworthy that from this longer article, we can see that the article (which also has no author) includes additional information including quotations from the co-founder. From WP:ORGIND, Independent content, in order to count towards establishing notability, must include original and independent opinion, analysis, investigation, and fact checking that are clearly attributable to a source unaffiliated to the subject. Clearly, these articles are not intellectually independent and fails ORGIND.
 * As another example, the Tribune article is based on a relatively straight-forward corporate event - the opening of a new store - with phrases such as "Amrapali Jewels, a brand whose legacy precedes it"; "have been working tirelessly" to get the store in Pakistan for the past three years" and "With the price range falling between Rs2,500 and Rs300,000, Amrapali offers a versatile range that can be donned with western and eastern outfits." Most telling is that the store opening was also covered by diamondworld.net (different "author") and contains a summarized version of the exact same information. Amazingly it also uses the exact same phrases! Clearly, this is not "intellectually independent" and was produced in conjunction with the company - hence the exact same phrases turning up in "different" publications.
 * Therefore references fail the criteria for establishing notability, topic fails GNG and WP:NCORP.  HighKing++ 13:03, 6 October 2018 (UTC)

<ul><li>Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources.<ol> <li> This is a 1,181-word profile of Amrapali Jewels. The article notes: "Amrapali Jewels. Unlike other Jaipur companies that date back to the 1700s, Amrapali Jewels was started in 1978 by two entrepreneurial history students, Rajiv Arora and Rajesh Ajmera. Both men wanted to start a business that incorporated Indian culture and history, which they found could be expressed through jewelry. They started the business with no long-term business model, just a few hundred rupees in their pockets and a passion. The two traveled to remote villages in Rajasthan, Gujarat, and Orissa and sought out one-of-a-kind tribal jewelry to recreate in their vision. These pieces could be purchased in secondhand stores and pawnshops for very little money, often just 10% over the metal value. Much of the jewelry they created contained compo- nents of the original piece. After purchasing a necklace with 24 drop pendants, they would turn the piece into 12 earring pairs and sell to 12 customers rather than one. By following this strategy they were able to get more customers and higher profit margins. (Indeed, one of the history student founders was also a business school graduate.) Their original store in Jaipur, a 150- square-foot shop at the end of a quiet street, was the least expensive place they could find. At first the two partners made everything by hand. In 1981 they hired a craftsman, and that was the start of growing the business. Amrapali brought the tribal motif into the realm of high-end fashionable jewelry, attracting Bollywood celebrities and other sophisticated customers. The first Mumbai store, opened at the end of the 1980s, was in an upscale shopping area that catered to a trendsetting clientele. The brand name Amrapali be- came synonymous with this tribal designer look. The jewelry styles remained closely related to those of each individual tribe’s unique design elements but also reflected Amrapali’s own influences. One example, the Panna collection, features carved emeralds in floral designs (figure 32). Along with the flagship store on Mirza Ismail Road, which is considered the Fifth Avenue of Jaipur, stores were also opened in Delhi and Bangalore, and franchises were formed. Amrapali’s growing e-commerce business is designed to reach the consumer globally and directly. The export business also began growing due to strong international interest in the tribal-inspired designs. By 2002 these collections were available in Selfridges, an upscale department store in London (Kaushik, 2014). Amrapali is now sold in Harrods of London and in retail stores other than the brand’s own. There are 36 global retail outlets, 28 of them in India and eight outside the coun- try, with an office in New York City. In addition to its own products, the company manufactures jewelry for other brands."</li> <li> The book notes: "For jewellery aficionados across the world, Amrapali is not only an ornament brand but also a cult that has revolutionised the world of beauty and glamour. Ethnic yet contemporary, modern yet classic, delicately crafted jewellery from the house of Amrapali has made Jaipur a centre-stage of fashion. Since its inception in 1978, Amrapali has won a fan club of international celebrities like Paris Hilton, Queen Latifah, Queen of Bhutan Ashi Wangchuck and Israeli president Shimon Peres. For several famous families like Hermes, Corum, Porche and Barbie-Muller, Amrapali has been a frequent and valuable jeweller, whom clients visit again and again. Amrapali has also caught the imagination of glamorous stars of Hollywood and Bollywood. It won the proffered jewellery brand endorsed by international celebrities for the Academy Awards' Red Carpet, in 2010. It is the only Indian jewellery house to present its collection in the Fashion Weeks of Milan and New York. Leading stores like Juicy Couture, John Lewis, Banana Republic, Cost Plus, World Market and many more stock its unique pieces. Amrapali is the first Indian jewellery brand, which is also available at Harrods."</li> <li> The book notes: "In 1980, two young entrepreneurs, Rajesh Ajmera and Rajiv Arora, saw a gap in the market and started adapting traditional jewelry styles to appeal to a broader international market. Conveniently situated near Panch Batti and the city gate that leads into Jauhri Bazaar, Amrapali is famous for its tribal silver jewelry, but the gold showroom also contains some rare examples of kundan jewelry, a technique in which each gem is set by pressing fine strips of highly purified gold around it. Depending on how much you spend, you may be able to negotiate a discount."</li> <li> The book notes: "One of India's most well-known jewelry brands, Amrapali was founded in 1978 by Rajesh Ajmera and Rajiv Arora. The brand is influenced by the country's varied cultural traditions, as interpreted by 1,200 craftsmen. Amrapali jewelry is available in more than 36 outlets. You can find everything from a pair of gold-plate floral jaali hoop earrings for less than $50 to a multicolored sapphire bangle for $10,000."</li> <li> The article notes: "The Pink City's own jewellery brand Amrapali has been nominated for the prestigious Andrea Palladio International Jewellery Awards. The brand is nominated in the category of the Best International Jewellery Brand Collection, which places it along with the big names in world jewellery such as Tiffany & Co, Brumani, H. Stern and Van Cleef & Arpels. The Andrea Palladio International Jewellery Awards are instituted by the Fiera di Vicenza. Amrapali Jewels, started by Rajeev Arora and Rajesh Ajmera in 1978, has also been invited to the “red carpet” with other guests at the gala evening to be held in Venice on May 19 with a private viewing of the “Diane Vreeland after Diane Vreeland” Exhibition at Palazzo Fortuny, followed by an exclusive dinner at La Fenice Theatre."</li> <li> The article notes: Tarang Arora has not been sleeping well, yet the cause of his restless nights is not the stress from his job as chief executive and creative director of the Jaipur-based fine jeweller Amrapali. On the contrary, it is the rather welcome one of the birth of his first child, a boy. For a family-owned jeweller — Amrapali was founded in 1978 by Mr Arora’s father, Rajiv, and his friend, Rajesh Ajmera — this is significant news. Will Mr Arora’s son eventually take over from his father? “I hope so — let’s see what he would like to do,” says Mr Arora. Mr Arora’s father and Mr Ajmera began the company with 400 rupees in their pockets — in today’s values about £4. Fascinated by antiques and history, the pair bought a second-hand car and travelled India’s states, from Rajhastan to Gujarat, buying jewellery from small village pawn shops and discovering the traditions and craftsmanship of different local styles. They amassed more than 2,500 pieces of antique jewellery, particularly silver traditional designs. Mr Arora says that in his father’s hands, one necklace might then be transformed into a dozen earrings. “It was entrepreneurship at a very initial stage,” he says. Today that process has been reversed — every day the brand is offered jewels and antiques from all over India. </li> <li> The article notes: "WHEN RAJIV ARORA and Rajesh Ajmera were starting Amrapali, their luxury Indian jewelry brand, more than 30 years ago, in their spare time they would travel throughout India, buying up stunning one-off pieces from remote villages and tribal markets. They are now setting up a museum in Jaipur to showcase some of their most exceptional finds, offering a unique insight into the jewelry and ornaments worn by the tribespeople of rural India."</li> <li> The article notes: "The Pink City has a new addition to its already impressive list of gems. Founders of Jaipur-based jewellery house Amrapali Jewels, Rajiv Arora and Rajesh Ajmera, are all set to throw open the doors to the Amrapali Museum of Jewellery, a 6,500sqft space which will house a mix of rare jewellery and other collectibles painstakingly curated over four decades. For Arora and Ajmera, the passion for collecting jewellery dates back to as long ago as their college years and it was this passion that lead them to open the museum. At the sprawling space, expect to find everything from fine jewellery to silver antiques and exquisite curios. Think rosewater sprinklers, plates, tea sets, ornate shoe covers and even an extravagant silver-covered chariot. What’s more? At the gift shop, visitors can get their hands on vintage silver pieces, much like the ones on display."</li> <li> The article notes: "For Rajiv Arora and Rajesh Ajmera, founders of Amrapali, one of India’s largest jewelry houses, their country’s heritage has not only influenced their modern designs, it also has led to the creation of a museum. Traveling the subcontinent as history graduates in the early 1980s, Mr. Arora and Mr. Ajmera were inspired to create a contemporary jewelry brand after discovering for themselves India’s rich heritage in the decorative arts. Over the next 35 years, they amassed some 3,000 examples: from 500-year-old “rural village” creations, Mr. Arora said, to contemporary designs like a circa-1960 silver, gold and glass Araipatta waist band. Their collection now will be housed in a 6,500-square-foot space, an annex to Amrapali’s corporate headquarters in Jaipur, scheduled to open next month. They say it will be the first museum of its kind in India’s gem capital."</li> <li> The article notes: "Started in 1978 in Jaipur by two young post graduates of Ancient Indian History and Culture Amrapali is now well recognised as the epitome of handcrafted Indian jewellery. Owners of a great collection of Tribal & Ethnic Silver Mr. Rajesh Ajmera and Mr. Rajiv Arora lay the foundation of their company by collecting old pieces from remote interiors of India. They used elements of Ethnic Indians Jewellery in their designs and revived the traditional methods to incorporate in their pieces, creating a design language distinct to Amrapali. Each one is a handcrafted one-of-a-kind piece destined to be treasured. ... Amrapali was introduced to international market by making its benchmark at a high-end department store Selfridges in London and presently at Harrods. It was the only Indian Jewellery House that was also Official Jewellery Sponsors for the Milan Fashion Week 2003. Today, they have over 25 selling points within India in various formats such as exclusive outlets, shop in shop and showrooms in various famous forts of India. They also have a presence in UK, USA, Sri Lanka, Nigeria and Spain. With such success it comes as no surprise to see that Amrapali has created a fan club, with American businesswoman & socialite Paris Hilton, Queen Latifah, Maharani Padmini Devi and Princess Diya of the Jaipur Royal family, Mr. & Mrs. Ram Goolam (PM Mauritius), Queen of Bhutan Ashi Wangchuck, Israel President Shimon Peres. Known families like Hermes, Corum, Porche, and Barbie-Muller are also on the list."</li> <li> The article notes: "Amrapali. Mumbai-based designer Nitya Arora founded her label Valliyan in 2008, creating a distinct theatrical style that is now associated with her brand. Arora calls herself a 'mad scientist' when it comes to experimenting with designs and nothing is off-limits. She believes that the country is slowly realizing that jewellery can be more than just an investment and that has contributed to the sudden growth in fashion jewellery in the market. This 'mad' exploration of designs and materials often result in pieces that cannot be replicated, so you have a good chance of ending up with a one-of-its-kind Valliyan piece. Don't miss out on the famous shoulder dusters and large hoops on her website."</li> </ol>There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Amrapali Jewels to pass Notability, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject". Cunard (talk) 04:24, 7 October 2018 (UTC) </li></ul>
 * Response please stop posting these overly long posts. Your style of linking is great and appreciated but there's no need for you to include so much text. A one or two line summary is far better. Also, please take a read of WP:ORGIND - in particular what "independent" means. You appear to not understand the meaning of "intellectually independent" as most of your links (on AfDs related to organizations) fail this test - Too often a related party produces a narrative that is then copied, regurgitated, and published in whole or in part by independent parties (as exemplified by churnalism). Independent content, in order to count towards establishing notability, must include original and independent opinion, analysis, investigation, and fact checking that are clearly attributable to a source unaffiliated to the subject. Also, you appear to deliberately ignore parts of articles that categorically state they are based on sources affiliated with the subject and omit quotations/interviews from your selections in an attempt to make the article appear intellectually independent.
 * This article "Jaipur, India: The Global Gem and Jewelry Power of the Pink City" states at the beginning Many of these were family businesses, and we were able to interview multiple generations in preparing case studies. The authors conducted numerous interviews with their ownership, management, and production crews and collected over 80 hours of video and more than 10,000 photos. The profile of Amrapali Jewels is a copy-and-paste of nearly every other article on the company including their history, their style, their market and customers, their prices. All photos are "courtesy of Amrapali". This is pure churnalism and fails WP:ORGIND.
 * This book "Jaipur: Gem of India" does a small profile piece on a number of "Contemporary Design Houses" in Jaipur and lists 22 firms. The tone of the article is purely promotional and your extract clearly demonstrates and not intellectually independent and fails WP:ORGIND. It also provides no corporate details and fails WP:CORPDEPTH.
 * The Frommers book is also not intellectually independent and is little more than a travel directory listing hotels and shops. Fails WP:CORPDEPTH.
 * "Where Stylists Shop: The Fashion Insider's Ultimate Guide" is also simply a travel/shopping directory. Fails WP:CORPDEPTH.
 * The article "Pink City jewellery brand Amrapali nominated for international award" is based on an announcement that the company was nominated for an award (which they didn't win). It is not intellectually independent as it contains no original information clearly attributable to a source unaffiliated with the subject and fails WP:ORGIND. Since it is based on an announcement by an affiliated source (and also contains no corporate information) it fails WP:CORPDEPTH.
 * The FT article "The house build on 400 rupees"] is clearly based on an interview with the CEO, therefore fails WP:ORGIND. If you had familiarised yourself with ORGIND as asked countless times, you would have known this already.
 * The WSJ article "Amrapali: By the Light of the Silvery Moon" has very little to do with the company as it focuses on the opening of a museum. It is also based on a company announcement. Fails both WP:ORGIND and WP:CORPDEPTH.
 * The Vogue article fails for the same reasons.
 * The NYT article fails for the same reasons.
 * The article in The Jewellery Editor is churnalism and entirely promotional. The source is also a small niche online publication. There is nothing here that indicates anything original or independent.
 * The Elle article "10 jewellery stores to check out the next time you're shopping online" is simply another online shopping directory and contains no corporate information, fails WP:CORPDEPTH.
 * Overwhelmingly, the articles are promotional, all contain the same style of opening referring to the two founders, most are entirely promotional with no indications of any original and independent content, just a regurgitation of the brand message. <b style="font-family: Courier; color: darkgreen;"> HighKing</b>++ 19:30, 7 October 2018 (UTC)
 * The 1,181-word profile of Amrapali Jewels from the peer-reviewed journal Gems & Gemology is not "pure churnalism". It is a well-researched overview of Amrapali's history and business. No other sources I've found go into as much detail and research as this profile so it is not "a copy-and-paste of nearly every other article on the company". There is independent analysis in the article about Amrapali and the economy. An example: "With the challenging global economic conditions over the last several years, the international sales volume has actually increased through lower-priced pieces, including base metal fashion jewelry and silver jewelry, which is less expensive and easier to sell and often has a higher profit margin. Amrapali’s silver jewelry often contains lower-priced colored gemstones, and the base metal jewelry incorporates crystal and other imitations." The Jaipur: Gem of India book source has a positive tone but it is an independently researched overview of the company. There is no evidence that the information is based on content from Amrapali. It does provide corporate details such as Amrapali was founded in 1978, its products are used by international celebrities including Paris Hilton, Queen Latifah, Queen of Bhutan Ashi Wangchuck and Israeli president Shimon Peres, it presented at Fashion Weeks of Milan and New York in 2010 and was the only Indian jewellery company to do so, and it is sold in the stores Juicy Couture, John Lewis, Banana Republic, Cost Plus, and World Market. There is enough information to meet WP:CORPDEPTH, which requires "mak[ing] it possible to write more than a very brief, incomplete stub about the organization". Regarding the other sources, I disagree that interviews with company employees render the entire articles non-independent. Cunard (talk) 20:32, 7 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Response It is difficult to look at the 1,181 word article as anything but pure churnalism. All the photos are "courtesy of Amrapali". The history "started in 1978 by two entrepreneurial students" is repeated in every other "article" on the company. Comments like "They started the business with no long-term business model, just a few hundred rupees in their pockets and a passion" is typical fairy-story poor-men-done-good promotion. If you read again the definition "Independent content, in order to count towards establishing notability, must include original and independent opinion, analysis, investigation, and fact checking that are clearly attributable to a source unaffiliated to the subject." there is nothing in this article that is clearly attributable to a source unaffiliated with the subject. All of the "facts" undoubtedly are provided by Amrapali. The piece you highlight starting "With the challenging global economic conditions..." is not the start of the paragraph. It starts by saying "Fifteen years ago, 60% to 70% of Amrapali's business was in exports, but today that number represents the company's domestic sales". Now do you honestly think that Amrapali, a private company, threw open its accounting ledgers and allowed some journalists to make that calculations as an act of independent research? That's absurd. It is obvious that all the facts and figures were provided to the journalists. You concede that the book "has a positive tone" but it is far more than merely "positive", it is gushing. It's a PR piece, plain and simple, and every single fact, figure, projection, etc, was provided by the company for publication, along with photographs and prices. The article ends with the standard forward-looking "Amrapali believes that the market .... will continue to grow". This is not "intellectually independent" by any stretch of the imagination and fails WP:ORGIND. <b style="font-family: Courier; color: darkgreen;"> HighKing</b>++ 18:06, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Relisting to allow time for further input regarding the third batch of sources provided later in the discussion.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 11:53, 8 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment Multiple Independent sources showing WP:SIGCOV have been produced to Justify the notabilty.-- D Big X ray ᗙ  00:34, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Response Nothing in that article] meets WP:CORPDEPTH since 1) it isn't even about the company and 2) it is dicussing how the founders are opening a museum. Please note that notability is not inherited. <b style="font-family: Courier; color: darkgreen;"> HighKing</b>++ 11:46, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep. Fashion, and perhaps even more jewelry,  is a subject area where a great deal of what is published is hype and coi, and if we are going to cover it at all we need to accept some degree of it. And it is also true that in these areas Indian news sources especially,  tend to at least look like promotionalism . The nature of the sources we use needs to suit the subject. The basic idea behind WP:GNG and NCORP  is whether RSs not given to hype publish about it, and they do, such as the NYT article which  discusses the company, and   the founder also, and  the museum.  (Personally I'd prefer more objective standards, but since the consensus is still to use mainly the GNG, we need to be realistic about it, not use every possible excuse to avoid covering a company.  My comments at various afds have to some degree contributed to the tightening of the NCORP standard, but carrying it to this extent is absurd--perhaps  we have over-reacted. )  (and the photos are of course all by courtesy of the firm--how could it be otherwise--these are proprietary designs!)  DGG ( talk ) 04:48, 16 October 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.