Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Anand Rishiji Maharaj


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. Keeper |  76  16:20, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

Anand Rishiji Maharaj

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

The article does not cite any reliable source to establish the notability of the person. It should thus be deleted. Rahul Jain (talk) 18:12, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep Please do not use deletion process for clean up/sources. Just tag them as such. The Government of India thought the person notable enough and issued a postage stamp in his honour so he is worthy of a page on wikipedia.. Nominator, Wikipedia is a Collaborative project, what you have done to find sources for this page? Further Wikipedia is a work-in-progress: we don't need every article that is imperfect to be deleted. Shyamsunder (talk) 19:18, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Do you have a reliable source for the postage stamp claim? IRWolfie- (talk) 23:33, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:53, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Religion-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:54, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:54, 28 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, T ofutwitch11  (T ALK ) 02:44, 7 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Delete (even post-copyvio). Major copyvio of  ; while the subject is quite interesting and his lifework laudable, there are no reliable sources whatsoever that can verify that the article meets WP:GNG.   dci  &#124;  TALK   02:55, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I am almost verging on saying a CSD would have been OK; the entire body section is a blatant copyvio.  dci  &#124;  TALK   02:58, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep. A Google Images search for ("Anand Rishiji Maharaj" stamp) turned up a number of photos of the stamp, including this one at a stamp-collector website.  Although this isn't the same as comprehensive coverage by independent media, the distinction seems strong enough to establish notability.  Ammodramus (talk) 04:31, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't really think that photos of a stamp are necessarily helpful when trying to ascertain notability. Further, the bulk of the article has been copied and pasted from another site.   dci  &#124;  TALK   02:55, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
 * The issuing of a stamp in someone's honor is a distinction unusual enough that it seems to create a presumption of notability. I linked to the photo of the stamp because an earlier comment had asked whether we had verifiable evidence of its existence.
 * I've dealt with the copyvio situation by reverting to an older version of the article; this is the course recommended by WP:DCV, which calls for deletion only if no such non-infringing older version exists. Ammodramus (talk) 13:46, 8 March 2013 (UTC)


 * We don't seem to have a source saying that the Indian government decided to honour him by printing the stamp. People are inferring it from a primary source. I am also not aware of how much of an honour it is for one to have a stamp in India, nor do I have any measure for knowing if it confers notability. The two sources shown  look to be of poor quality for describing the individual, IRWolfie- (talk) 17:22, 8 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Keep - The lengthy process involved in determining who is going to be honoured with a postage stamp, or set of stamps, of their country is indeed evidence of their notanility, particularly in India where there are candidates galore, but most of them are sidelined because of the rigorous selection  standards applied. As for Google results, looking under  "Jainism Anand Rishiji Maharaj"  produces ample and better results than just entering his name. The article certainly  needs to be expanded with additional independent  sources, as the man was and is notable. Have a look at this list of some of the most prominent Jains he has joined, who adorn Indian postage stamps. There are not that many.--Zananiri (talk) 17:42, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Jain stamps: http://www.jainsamaj.org/rpg_site/literature2.php?id=456&cat=42--Zananiri (talk) 21:48, 8 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Comment (already !voted): The sources linked to by performing the revised Google Search really aren't reliable, nor does appearing on a postage stamp - even if this is rare - confer notability. Right now, there really aren't reliable, third-party sources that show how this man meets, for example, WP:GNG or WP:ANYBIO, to name some of the simpler policies.   dci  &#124;  TALK   23:34, 8 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Here is govt of India site . Hope this  is accepted as a reliable source.Shyamsunder (talk) 01:12, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Sure, but a picture isn't a reliable source.  dci  &#124;  TALK   01:19, 9 March 2013 (UTC)


 * * Comment: I agree that a picture alone is never a reliable source, but if one looks at how only prominent figures in their respective fields (in philatelic jargon that means notable) are selected for commemorative issues rather than definitive ones ( I am assuming everyone here knows the different criteria involved in issuing the two types of stamps by all democratic postal authorities) the man's notability shoud not be in doubt. The selection process in India is described under 'Philately' here:http://www.indiapost.gov.in/Philately.aspx I should add that all the other prominent Jains (in my previous link) who had Indian  commemorative stamps issued to honour them also have WP articles, sometimes with variations in their names. Surely, not just pure coincidence. As I mentioned before, the selection process for commemorative stamps is pretty rigorous and most candidates tend to fall by the wayside.--Zananiri (talk) 14:16, 9 March 2013 (UTC)


 * There is inherent systematic bias on wikipedia and that is what being confirmed in this discussion on the deletion.
 * I don't really think so; there is no bias whatsoever against this topic due to the subject's origins or those of its major contributors. The same thing would be happening were this a similar American Catholic figure with a void of reliable sources.   dci  &#124;  TALK   01:31, 9 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Additional datum. It appears that India issued 54 postage stamps in 2002: the WINS number consists of a two-letter country code, followed by a three-digit serial number, followed by a period and then two digits for the year.  The ARM stamp has WINS number IN023.02, for instance.  I changed the serial number in the URL at the Universal Postal Union website and found numbers running up to IN054.02, but nothing higher.  Of the stamps I randomly looked at, roughly half were not for particular individuals (lots of buildings, for instance).  This suggests that getting on an Indian stamp is a fairly rare distinction: it's not one of those countries that issue hundreds of stamps yearly in order to maximize revenue from philatelists.  Ammodramus (talk) 13:44, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
 * 54 post stamps in a single year sounds like a lot. Are all of those buildings you mentioned notable? We still don't have any sources, IRWolfie- (talk) 14:42, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
 * According to List of people on stamps of the United States, the US issued 37 stamps featuring specific individuals in 2002. All of the subjects have WP articles, so all of them are presumably notable.
 * Point 13 of the India Post's rules re. commemorative stamps states "The personalities on whom commemorative postage stamp may be issued should be of national or international importance". Could we compare this situation to the listing of a property in the US's National Register of Historic Places?  Many NRHP sites have received little or no media attention, but the NRHP listing alone is considered sufficient to establish notability.  Ammodramus (talk) 16:38, 9 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Comment - I do happen to be familiar with the selection process in different countries. Ammodramus makes some valid points. The population of India is over three times that of the US, so if the US issued 37 stamps, India with 54 is no exaggeration. More people in India use more postage stamps. Essentially, we are discussing here commemorative stamps for notable people. As I observed earlier, there are Wiki articles on  the other Jain personalities depicted on Indian stamps. They were chosen because of their notability and no other reason. The extract from the  mission statement quoted by  Ammodramus should suffice to convince the sceptics and those not au fait  with how democratic countries, not in the business of producing stamps as an industry, choose the personalities to adorn their stamps. We are not talking about buildings here but people, not about definitive stamps but commemorative stamps. In fact, governments and postal authorities choose these personalities along the lines Wiki demands regarding notabiliy.  Such stamps draw the attention of the nation and the world to their notability.--Zananiri (talk) 17:50, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Zananiri, are you at all acquainted with the Indian media? I've tried searching the websites of The Hindu and The Times of India to see if I could find articles connected with the release of the stamp.  I've had no luck, but I may not be using the right search terms&mdash;I believe there are a variety of ways of transliterating various Indian languages into English, and an alternative transliteration might produce results.  It's also possible that there are other newspapers and magazines, either in English or in other languages, that would yield the sort of article we want.  I suspect that much of the support for deletion comes from the fact that we've only got Jain sources for ARM's biography.  Ammodramus (talk) 18:20, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
 * If you are looking for the news item you should search newspapers of Maharashtra state and specially Marathi language newspapers. The release of stamp would have been covered by the newspapers of state Maharashtra where the person lived.Shyamsunder (talk) 19:59, 9 March 2013 (UTC)


 * The problem here is not whether or not the person met criteria to be on an Indian government stamp. Although it may sound a bit insulting to the article's subject - and there is no intent to degrade him - the problem is that there isn't significant coverage in reliable sources establishing his notability.   dci  &#124;  TALK   20:42, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
 * No, that's not the problem, because nobody in this discussion has actually looked in the right places for such coverage, for which it would be an extraordinary claim that they don't exist for one of the couple of dozen people selected to be pictured on a stamp in 2002 out of the billion or so Indians. Phil Bridger (talk) 21:37, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
 * DCI, how do you know that sources don't exist in Marathi? Have you left a message on the Embassy page of Marathi wikipedia asking for Marathi sources? In ictu oculi (talk) 04:24, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
 * * Comment - This is the official Ahmednagar District website (not something put out by the Jain community) about Anand Rishiji Maharaj and the memorial erected in his memory (Anand Dham):http://ahmednagar.gov.in/html_docs/AhmednagarCity.htm It seems many other sites may have copied the text about him from here rather than vice versa. Practically all tourist sites for this area list the memorial as a significant attraction for tourists (third on many lists) in the district. How many notable  people with Wiki articles about them are honoured officially in this manner, one wonders, or to put it the other way round: how many people who pass the Wiki  notability test for articles are honoured like this, not to mention the postage stamp! --Zananiri (talk) 23:16, 9 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Keep per Ammodramus (talk) 16:38, 9 March 2013 (UTC) . I have left a message on WP Jainism. In ictu oculi (talk) 04:21, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Upgrade to Strong Keep as expected after seeing Marathi sources. For two Jain religious organisations to be sponsoring festivals for the 100th birthday of someone isn't in itself unusual, but it does confirm his significance in the Jain community, and is reliably reported in mainstream Marathi newsprint. Still think this was a bit of a misuse of AfD. If Eddie Eagan came up for AfD on Marathi wikipedia, and no one on Marathi wikipedia could speak English would they still recognise that being on a US Postal Service stamp means notability? The original nominator could easily have gone direct to WP Jainism or Marathi wp's English Embassy page rather than AfD. In ictu oculi (talk) 14:21, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

1)News article in Marathi language "दौंड येथे धर्मप्रभावना शताब्दी रथ यात्रेचे मोठय़ा उत्साहात स्वागत करण्यात आले. ऑल इंडिया श्‍वेतांबर स्थानकवासी जैन कॉन्फरन्स यांच्या वतीने आचार्य आनंद ऋषीजी यांचा दीक्षा जयंती शताब्दी महोत्सव व युवाचार्य मिश्रीमलजी महाराज यांच्या जन्मशताब्दी निमित्ताने या धर्मप्रभावना यात्रेचे आयोजन करण्यात आलेले आहे." Rough Translation (Pl. forgive for any translation and language mistakes) :"All India Shwetambara Sthanakwasi Jain conference has organised a religious congregation at Daund to celebrate (diksha) birth centenary of Anand Rishiji Maharaj. (This news item is apeared in Daily Lokamat News paper ,This one is one of highest selling news paper in Maharashtra)
 * Information from Marathi Language Sources

2)नगर - गरीब व सर्वसामान्यांचे आरोग्य मंदिर म्हणून ओळखल्या जाणाऱ्या येथील आनंदऋषीजी रुग्णालयाच्या सेवाकार्याने प्रभावित झालेल्या चाळीसगाव येथील शांतिलाल धोका यांनी आपली स्वकष्टार्जित तब्बल 40 लाखांची संपत्ती रुग्णालयाला आज अर्पण केली! Rough Translation (Pl. forgive for any translation and language mistakes) :"A doner from Chalisgoan namely "Shantilal Dhoka" has donated self earned property worth Rs.40lacks (rouhly 73882 USD) to "Anand Rishiji Hospital"(This news item is apeared in Daily Sakal News paper ,This one is one of credible  news paper source in Maharashtra)

3)नाशिक येथील राष्ट्रसंत आचार्य आनंदऋषीजी महाराज या शाळेत शिकणाऱ्या देवेन भटू वाघ हा इयत्ता पहिलीत शिकणारा विद्यार्थी आंतरराष्ट्रीय मॅथेमॅटीक्स ऑलिम्पियाडमध्ये ९७.५० टक्के मार्क्स मिळवून पहिला आला आहे.     (Pl. forgive for any translation and language mistakes) :" Mastar Deven Bhatu Wagh, a first standard student studying in Nashik's RashtraSant(NationalSaint) Acharya Anandrishiji Maharaj School ; came first among all Indian students scoring 97.5% in International Mathematics Olympiad."(This is a news paper report from Times  of Inadia group Marathi language news paper Maharasthra Times which is one of top twos is encyclopedic credibility ranking)

4)"स्वानंद महिला संस्था आणि भारतीय जैन संघटना महिला विभाग यांनी संत तुकारामनगर येथील आचार्य अत्रे रंगमंदिरात नववे स्त्री साहित्य-कला संमेलन आयोजित केले होते. ......भक्ती सवाने यांना आचार्य आनंदऋषीजी साहित्यरत्न पुरस्कार देण्यात आला."


 * (Pl. forgive for any translation and language mistakes):"One Ms.Bhakti Savane has been felicitated with 'Aacharya Anandrishiji Sahityratn(a literary) award' at nineth Women's literature and art conclave held by Swanand Mahila Sanstha and Bharatiya Jain Sanghatana women's division.

5)Found an article about Anand Rishiji Maharaj in "Vyakti Sandarbh Kosh" (an encyclopedia of personalities language marathi) on Marathi Srushti.com . (I have seen "Vyakti Sandarbh Kosh" editors in person at one of state level encyclopedist conference held by aikya bharati so feel to be a credible source.)
 * Can not translate immidiately since it is a copyrighted source but can be used for refrences.

6) Resources available on Google books Book name View snippet Spiritual masters of India (20th century) By G. R. Sholapurkar - 1994 -language english - Page 128 : "Acharya Anand Rishi Ji Maharaj has been the chief inspiration in founding many institutions. Some of these are mentioned below: (i) In memory of his Guru, Acharva Ratna Rishi Ji Maharaj, the RATNA JAIN PUSIAKALAYA PATHARDIH was ..."

7) Another resource observed on Google books No preview but "name of Anand Rishiji Maharaj is mentioned on the cover page of the book named "Jain Acharyas"; Editor:Books Llc;Publisher :General Books, 2010 ;ISBN 1155785428, 9781155785424 Length:94 pages

8)"He became the second acharya of Vardhman Sthanakvasi Jain Shravak Sangh, a Jain religious body,[5] from 1964 to 1992 "
 * I suppose this is more than enough for encyclopedic notability.And lately added references in the article seem to be vaild enough.

9)::>>there were more sources that gave actual biographical details
 * Article is incomplete that does not mean not natable . Complteting the article is for concerned wikipedians


 * Thanks for raising the querry on mr-wiki embassy . and best wishes.

Mahitgar (talk) 07:23, 15 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Weak keep. After a fairly exhaustive Google search I failed to find any sources in English, but the postage stamp plus Mahitgar's Marathi source no. 1 have just about persuaded me that this should be kept. I would be happier if there were more sources that gave actual biographical details, however. Bear in mind that I can't read Marathi at all, so I have no way of judging Mahitgar's sources 3 or 4 - my weak keep may turn into a normal keep depending on what the translations are. — Mr. Stradivarius  ♪ talk ♪ 08:24, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.