Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ancestry of Juan Ponce de León


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 00:31, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

Ancestry of Juan Ponce de León

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Original research, primary sources. User who created article is author of book. J.Ponce de León's ancestry already included in his respective article. Maragm (talk) 13:13, 20 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Spain-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 17:34, 20 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 17:34, 20 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 17:34, 20 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete Wikipedia articles should be mostly referenced to secondary sources, particularly those published by legitimate publishers, not old unpublished historical documents. While Juan Ponce de León is obviously a very important historical figure, his ancestry is discussed in the main article, which makes clear the dominant opinion that little is known about his ancestry or birth. This article is undue detail and appears to present a fringe theory, speculation, and/or original research. We should stick to reporting what reliable secondary or tertiary sources say, and this can be done in the main article. Colapeninsula (talk) 10:58, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Remarks: Just to clarify some of the reasons for proposing the deletion of this article:
 * In user’s  talk page, I explained that the Ponce de León lineage comes from Ponce Giraldo de Cabrera, not from Ponce de Minerva.  My info is based on several works, some of which I mentioned in the respective talk page of the article:   Juan Luis Carriazo Rubio, professor of Medieval History at the University of Huelva; Margarita Torres Sevilla Quiñones de León, Professor of Medieval History, University of León; Inés Calderón Medina, professor of Medieval History at the University of Mallorca and author of several works; Simon Barton, reputable historian and author of several works; and Jaime de Salazar y Acha, member of the  Real Academia Matritense de Heráldica y Genealogía and author of several well-known works on medieval genalogies.
 * The user using an IP, deleted the entire article claiming that: "I have deleted the Ancestry of Juan Ponce de Leon because of your refusal to accept the fact that Ponce de Minerva is in fact the ancestor of the Ponce de Leons. It is my article and my sources".
 * In article, before I reverted, he claimed that: It has been said that "Ponce de Minerva's ancestry has been a bone of contention since the seventeenth century but John Browne Ayes' and Salazar de Mendoza's work are the only historical works that give the most complete and precise genealogy and historical data to date". John Brown Ayes, as he himself claims, is also the user Ayesart  (by the way, his user page seems to be a CV and pretty much self-laudatory) and Salazar de Mendoza is a 16th-17th century author. User has also said that he is the "documented 27th great grandson of the Adelantado Juan Ponce de Leon".--Maragm (talk) 12:20, 21 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete -- I do not think his ancestry and relationships are likely to be notable. Juan Ponce de León certainly is.  The implication of other comments seems to be that the article's accuracy is disputed; if so, it should not be in WP: that is why we do not allow WP:OR.  Nobody "owns" a WP article.  I have run into this problem myself when WP was much younger and someone had written an article with claims that frankly were fantastic.  This conflect was resolved by my publishing my view in a reputable journal and then citing that in the amended WP article.  I had to defend my view quite hard against the exponents of the fantasy.  Peterkingiron (talk) 14:29, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:OR, WP:STUPID, and WP:BOLLOCKS. Bearian (talk) 01:27, 24 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete or redirect to ancestry.com.E.M.Gregory (talk) 18:31, 27 July 2015 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.