Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Anders Engberg (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge to List of Swedish supercentenarians. I really wish all the pro-centenarian editors and all the anti-centenarian editors would take it out to the parking lot and settle this once and for all. Come back and tell us who won, and we can move on to arguing about porn stars, pokemon characters, shopping malls or some other dreadfully important subject.

But, lacking that, there's clear consensus here to not have this as a stand alone article. Less agreement what particular flavor of not keeping we should implement. Without getting overly analytical about it, merging seems like the right compromise, but in keeping with the style of the merge target, I would recommend just cherry-picking the basic statistics. And, leave a redirect, and the history intact. -- RoySmith (talk) 01:23, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

Anders Engberg
AfDs for this article: 
 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

Reads, in its entirety,
 * Anders Engberg (1 July 1892 – 6 November 2003) was a Swedish supercentenarian, the oldest ever male in Sweden when he died at the age of 111 years and 128 days. Engberg worked a as a farmer.

Propose merge to an appropriate list per WP:NOPAGE and WP:PERMASTUB. EEng (talk) 04:58, 24 November 2015 (UTC) EEng (talk) 04:58, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Support Merge Note the previous 3 AfDs are for an unrelated band/singer with no relevance to this discussion. Legacypac (talk) 09:29, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep - the oldest ever male in Sweden. Has a page at Swedish wikipedia. This is WP:GNG all over.--BabbaQ (talk) 16:39, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
 * The fact that the Swedish version is also a stub merely supports the WP:PERMASTUB argument. Also, WP:OTHERLANGS. EEng (talk) 17:05, 24 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep I have expanded the article. He is also the oldest man ever from Sweden and the only man in Sweden to have attained supercentenarian status. 930310 (talk) 17:33, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Wait, wait -- don't tell me. The article now explains that he was born here, got married, worked doing something, wife died, lived independently until age X, moved into a nursing home at age Y, and died. He credited his longevity to eating a clove of garlic every day, so that no one would come near him and he wouldn't catch any germs. 1/3 to 1/2 of the article will be about who was the oldest lefthanded Swede before/after him. EEng (talk) 18:16, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Wow, I was spot on (except for the garlic). All these articles are the same. EEng (talk) 18:18, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
 * You just can't source the garlic part. I removed outlandish claims about this farmer being the oldest person in Sweden's history - there is a really good chance some other people lived longer in the last 1200 or so years. Legacypac (talk) 00:43, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
 * He is the oldest man ever from Sweden with documentation to support his age. So what you are doing is destructive. 930310 (talk) 09:30, 25 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete and/or Redirect to List of Swedish supercentenarians. WP:NOPAGE and fails WP:GNG as sources do not demonstrate notability. Belongs on a list, rather than a standalone article. CommanderLinx (talk) 15:44, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Actually WP:GNG is satisfies here. Per fact of him being the oldest man ever in a country.--BabbaQ (talk) 17:06, 27 November 2015 (UTC)
 * How can you prove he was the oldest man in Sweden's 1200 years of recorded history - something I find highly improbable. Legacypac (talk) 17:38, 27 November 2015 (UTC)
 * , you still seem to operate under the erroneous belief that we need to prove the "truth" that Edberg is the oldest person to ever live in Sweden. The way Wikipedia works is to use documentation provided in reliable and verifiable sources. The misunderstanding / misrepresentation that someone must prove the relative age of all other people who have ever lived in Sweden is just as demonstrably false as the claim that we must prove that Usain Bolt has factually run faster than every person who has ever lived on Earth in order to call him the "fastest person ever", as Wikipedia does in the lead of his article. Alansohn (talk) 20:29, 27 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Actually that article is incorrect. We can say that Bolt is the only person to win both x and y races and set a record in the z sponsored event. Not dying is not an event and there is no competition between super old people to keep breathing. Legacypac (talk) 20:56, 27 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete. WP:NOPAGE. DerbyCountyinNZ  (Talk Contribs) 09:59, 26 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep Agree with other users.--Inception2010 (talk) 16:17, 26 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete Having an article on the Swedish Wikipedia or being the oldest anything has no relevance to this discussion. Having the type of coverage that would satisfy WP:N does and I am not seeing that here. Canadian   Paul  18:38, 26 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Please specify how reliable sourcing that proves that this man was the oldest ever man in Sweden is not satisfying WP:N?. It doesnt make any sense.--BabbaQ (talk) 17:06, 27 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Where is the reliable sourcing for this outlandish clam? He is about 11 years short of the claimed world record holder, so it seems very unlikely the good Swedes have never had anyone older. Legacypac (talk) 17:42, 27 November 2015 (UTC)
 * There are two sources covering this at length in the article. So.--BabbaQ (talk) 21:27, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Presuming that you are referring to the middle two sources, I can respect that there could be different interpretations here. Personally, I see them as local, routine coverage that does not satisfy the guidelines for WP:N or, at least, a stand-alone article. I have no objection to his inclusion on one of the many supercentenarian-related lists on Wikipedia. Canadian   Paul  16:19, 1 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Merge Two of the three Swedish sources cover him at length while the last one makes a passing mention of him. In that regard, there is some notability even if in my eyes there is no "significant" coverage in the sense that any article about this gentleman would become anything more than a WP:PERMASTUB. Blackmane (talk) 12:20, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
 * So two sources do cover him at length. that notability. And PERMASTUB is not correct as it has been edited and expanded some even during this AfD. WP:IDONTLIKEIT apply to reasoning above. There are reasonings within your comment that shows notability.--BabbaQ (talk) 21:27, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sweden-related deletion discussions. BabbaQ (talk) 21:24, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
 * The two source do cover him at length satisfying the notability. However, the salient question is: Is there any way for sources to be presented that would result in an extensive article beyond what is there now? Notability does not automatically mean an article should be created or kept, the main thrust of WP:NOPAGE. As for the applicability of WP:PERMASTUB, this article hits all the last 3 points. Blackmane (talk) 02:42, 30 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Comment. The article was nominated for speedy deletion G4 ("...a page that was previously deleted via a deletion discussion, is substantially identical to the deleted version..."), but the cited deletion discussion was for an article about a different person and so I declined the request. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 01:37, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete then Redirect to List of Swedish supercentenarians. What little there is here in the way of sourcing is WP:ROUTINE coverage. There's no WP:SIGCOV. What facts there are can easily be characterized as unencyclopedic. Born, worked thatching roofs until thatched roofs were supplanted by eternite after WWII, lived some more, moved, had four sons with the lovely and talented Gerda, moved when he became a widower, wound up in a nursing home and eventually died, survived by two of his sons. Oh and some horse-race info about his standings in a mythical longevity competition for prolonged breathing. The thatched roof info, fascinating tho it may be, is not biographical info about this subject. The horse race commentary is irrelevant and, as Legacypac points out, probably misleading.  WP:NOPAGE governs here. The article should be stricken from the encyclopedia and a new rdirect created, pointing to the Swedish centenarian list. David in DC (talk) 18:00, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete then Redirect to List of Swedish supercentenarians as per and .--Tomwsulcer (talk) 22:52, 2 December 2015 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.