Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/André Alsanati


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Draftify. It is almost certain that this subject will meet GNG at some future point, but that point does not appear to have been met yet. As pointed out by a number of commenters, many of the sources are not really up to point. Black Kite (talk) 18:44, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

André Alsanati

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Since WP:NFOOTY is no longer a valid SNG, GNG must be met. This doesn't come close. Was draftified for improvement, but returned without any improvement.  Onel 5969  TT me 11:00, 27 March 2023 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CycloneYoris talk! 01:22, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 15:59, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 15:59, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sweden-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 15:59, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete Fails WP:GNG due to lack of significant coverage. Found some routine transfer coverage on him but nothing significant. Alvaldi (talk) 18:00, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep - I found, , , , , , , , , , , , , , and , and , among many many more Swedish sources. Clearly sginicanf figure in Swedish league football with ongoing career in Swedish top flight, which receives lots of media coverage. Article needs improvement, not deletion. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 00:22, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
 * 1 is entirely quotes ❌. #2 is an interview of the "summarize what the subject says before quoting him" type with little independent commentary ❌. #3 is a 404. #4 is an utterly routine transfer announcement with mostly quotes ❌. #5 is more routine transfer coverage ❌. If you didn't have evidence of SIGCOV in your first 5 links then I will assume the rest of them are garbage as well. JoelleJay (talk) 16:47, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Iraq-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 17:45, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. GiantSnowman 19:00, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep per sources above which show notability. GiantSnowman 19:08, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep passes GNG as per sources above.--Ortizesp (talk) 06:29, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete. I'm not going to review past the first 5 sources in a refdump if there's nothing beyond routine transfers and interviews. My own search for "اندريه السناطي" yielded transfer announcements, pure interviews, and his name listed in match reports, as did searches in Swedish media. JoelleJay (talk) 17:05, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Draftify (again). Alsanati just made his debut in the Allsvenskan (scored a goal on his debut), and recently received his first call-up to the Iraq national team. I'm not finding much useful coverage at the moment (the blog fotbollskanalen.se has an interview with some prose, but I can't determine if the blog is written by an expert or just a fan). Some newspapers have done match reports on his debut, but nothing appears to be in-depth yet. That said, I expect we will see in-depth coverage soon if he continues to be part of Sirius' Allsvenskan starting lineup. Jogurney (talk) 02:33, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I checked and the Gabriel Melke who posted the fotbollskanalen.se blog is a TV4 sports reporter, so I think that source counts toward SIGCOV (there is a fair amount of prose describing his career despite being a Q&A interview) and as such draftication is preferrable to deletion. Jogurney (talk) 19:55, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
 * SPS can't be used in BLPs even when it's by an expert: Never use self-published sources as third-party sources about living people, even if the author is an expert, well-known professional researcher, or writer. JoelleJay (talk) 22:23, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
 * That's inconsistent with my reading of WP:NEWSBLOG (as we're talking about a blog hosted by TV4). I'm not sure what to think. Jogurney (talk) 01:54, 5 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes it's not super clear but I think the fact that NEWSBLOG says they should be used "with caution" in general suggests it's especially inadvisable to use them for BLPs. JoelleJay (talk) 05:09, 5 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Fotbollskanalen is a football news website that also have blogs. It is used in these articles: . Kaffet i halsen (talk) 07:20, 8 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete: BLP Fails GNG and BIO. Sources in the article do not show N. BEFORE didn't show anything that is IS RS with SIGCOV showing N, stats, database, interviews, ROUTINE. Agree with JoelleJay assessment of the sources above, I looked at the rest and its more of the same, no SIGCOV.
 * WP:BLP states "Be very firm about the use of high-quality sources"'; BLPs need IS RS with SIGCOV addressing the subject directly and indepth for both content and notability to avoid abuse per well known core policy (WP:V and WP:BLP) and guidelines (WP:BIO and WP:IS, WP:RS, WP:SIGCOV).  // Timothy :: talk  02:07, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
 * The sources go into his background quite a bit, and the coverage is not routine. On top of that, as I pointed out before, he is a young clearly significant figure in Swedish league football with ongoing career in fully pro Swedish Allsvenskan, which receives lots of media coverage, and already has scored on his first appearance, which has led to more immediate coverage like and . Artivcle needs improvement, not deletion. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 08:42, 7 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Comment - I have just spent an hour and a half doing a WP:HEY and vastly expanded the article with the sources. WP:HEY states that it can be "invoked during deletion discussions to point out that an article has been significantly improved since it was nominated for deletion". Clearly sginicanf figure in Swedish league football. On top of that, as I pointed out before, he is a young clearly significant figure in Swedish league football with ongoing career in fully pro Swedish Allsvenskan, which receives lots of media coverage, and already has scored on his first appearance, which has led to more immediate coverage like and .  Article needs improvement, not deletion. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 11:28, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
 * The first link is paywalled but looks to be a routine match recap, the second is a routine match recap/interview. Not SIGCOV. JoelleJay (talk) 15:23, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Everyone should look at the sources above, they are by far the best examples of these "sources".  // Timothy :: talk  03:39, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep as encyclopedic topic per WP:GNG, and also because expansion (in light of recent IRL events, no less) renders the above WP:WIKILAWYERING a moot point. Geschichte (talk) 12:46, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Which sources meet GNG? JoelleJay (talk) 00:31, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 * More Source eval: JoelleJay did a great job evaluating the spam Keep links above. Two more were mentioned since then:
 * Promo about a game, mentions subject but no SIGCOV about the subject. :: https://ekuriren.se/bli-prenumerant/artikel/lz346gqj/ek-2m2kr_s_22
 * A few words, not SIGCOV "André Alsanati scored the first goal of the match at the beginning of the first half. ... Alsanati sat on the bench for Hammarby 20119, but was not allowed to play." :: https://omni.se/lika-i-norrkoping-efter-mal-av-allsvenska-debutanter/a/APJ6mr
 * Nothing here comes close to SIGCOV, the desperation above of claiming this is SIGCOV and shows notability is an indication of the quality of the Keep spam above.  // Timothy :: talk  03:36, 10 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Comment - Responding to TimothyBlue, Firstly, your most recent article (made in March 2023) is about a current Ukrainian photographer whose birth date is unknown and basically only has primary sources online... (which I am fine with, but trying to delete others articles with much more sources of any kind while creating those kinds of articles truly boggles the mind, the double standard makes no sense whatsoever). Secondly, the sources do have secondary coverage (e.g. "André Alsanati was predicted a bright future in Swedish football. As a 16-year-old, he signed for Hammarby and was praised by then sports manager Mats Jingblad. He moved from his hometown of Eskilstuna to Stockholm and Jingblad compared him to Messi. Expectations were sky high and Hammarby thought he had a golden nugget. But now he has instead signed for AFC Eskilstuna, after an unsuccessful loan to IK Frej", "André Alsanati left AFC Eskilstuna before this year's season and now represents Sirius. It was a total of two seasons at the club for the 23-year-old, who, among other things, also has a past in Hammarby. The midfielder, who can also play on the wing, has now been rewarded with a national team place - in Iraq. He has chosen to accept", "Alsanati was a great talent as a youngster, and made his debut for Sweden's U17 national team already when he was 15 years old. In the U17 national team, there were...  seven international matches and one goal, and when he was 16, he was recruited from Eskilstuna City to Hammarby. There were games in... Frej but never in Hammarby's A-team, and after a few years he moved to AFC Eskilstuna. He did well there, and for this year's season, Sirius has signed him" etc etc), Thirdly, every deletion editor's entire arguments is basically repeating "everything is routine" (clearly not true) or "deletion because the "law" said so" (Wikilawyering) without thinking about why the "law" exists in the first place...  the reason the secondary source "law" exists is objectivity, which this article does anyways... if a fair amount of independent, reliable sources, primary or secondary, can produce an objective factual decent sized article about a clear topic of interest, there's no logical reason it should be deleted at all (Wikipedia is supposed to be a source of knowledge, and this article is a "yes" to The one question). Fourthly,, Alsanati has an ongoing career as a important figure in a team in the Swedish Allsvenskan, a league that receives lots of media coverage. Lastly, For some backwards reason the focus is always on deletion rather than improvement, (but, I hear you say, isn't the whole point of editing Wikipedia to delete others articles?) but I spent hours doing a WP:HEY and vastly expanded the article with the sources. WP:HEY states that it can be "invoked during deletion discussions to point out that an article has been significantly improved since it was nominated for deletion".  As one user stated above, "expansion... renders the above WP:WIKILAWYERING a moot point".   Article needs improvement, not deletion. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 17:01, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep meets WP:GNG Lightburst (talk) 00:00, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete As per source analysis by Timothy and JoelleJay. MrsSnoozyTurtle 10:12, 11 April 2023 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.