Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Andrea (Macedonian singer)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. There have been no reliable sources presented for analysis, nor has there been a credible refutation of the analysis presented by the nominator. By strength of argument, consensus is the topic fails MUSICBIO and GNG, and there are no other policy-based reasons presented that indicate notability. 78.26 (spin me / revolutions) 14:50, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Andrea (Macedonian singer)

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Fails WP:MUSICBIO and WP:SIGCOV.  scope_creep Talk  01:12, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 04:19, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 04:19, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of New York-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 04:19, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of North Macedonia-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 04:19, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep: Passes N:MUSICBIO, because her songs have charted on the Ex-Yugoslavia Artists Chart [ https://popnable.com/macedonia/artists/69979-andrea-koevska/charts]. Furius (talk) 10:10, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
 * There needs to be coverage as well.   scope_creep Talk  10:25, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
 * The article has seven references pointing to a range of English and Macedonian language sources... I don't find your (extremely laconic) case very persuasive. 12:18, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep: There are articles on Wikipedia much more irrelevant than the existence of this article. Especially about living people.Dandarmkd (talk) 11:49, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
 * We will take a look at the references, which are shockingly bad.   scope_creep Talk  14:03, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete: Ex-Yugoslavia Artists Chart is NOT a national Charts, almost all the sources on the artcle  are from crappy website , this  article has NO significant coverege on WP:RS,  it Fails WP:GNG & WP:RS ,  it  Fails WP:MUSICBIO i see  NO evidence of Notability  .  the blogs and dozens of  unrelieble sources provided on this article has shows NO sign of Notability , they are all unrelieble sources , from a crappy websites  --   there is No significant Coverege on WP:RS, , it Fails WP:GNG & WP:RS ,  it  Fails WP:MUSICBIO  Ex-Yugoslavia Artists Chart is unrelieble charts , from another  promotional site ,  another crappy website, wish  also  Fails Notability   Samat lib (talk) 00:22, 12 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep: Most of the sources are well-respected music blogs, including BlackPlastic, which is listed on the reputable Hype Machine. A simple google search turns up dozens of other articles in English, as well as coverage in Spanish, French, and Portuguese. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Davids4211 (talk • contribs) 11:56, 12 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Comment Blogs are non-rs. There is no coverage.   scope_creep Talk  12:58, 12 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep: While the article can be improved, it meets the standards for music notability. She has charted in North Macedonia multiple times and is in regular rotation on nationally recognized radio stations in Bulgaria. The citations are not to personal blogs, but industry publications. AlekGru (talk)
 * Above user is a 1-edit WP:SPA. Possibly a sock?    scope_creep Talk  12:11, 14 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment: Not a sock, thanks.AlekGru (talk)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Less Unless (talk) 09:04, 18 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep - passes N:MUSICBIO and good notability.Idunnox3 (talk) 19:17, 19 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep - meets notability standards.davids4211 (talk)
 * Comment the blogs and dozens of  unrelieble sources provided on this article shows NO sign of Notability, they are all sources from a crappy website,  unrelieble sources ,  --   there is No significant Coverege on WP:RS, , it Fails WP:GNG & WP:RS ,  it  Fails WP:MUSICBIO  Ex-Yugoslavia Artists Chart is unrelieble charts , from another  promotional site ,  another crappy websites , the topic of this article Fails Notability rules , it Fails WP:MUSICBIO . Samat lib (talk) 07:35, 21 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment Lets look at the ref.
 * Ref 1. This is review site. Doesn't have author. Looks more like a profile. It doesn't have editor.
 * Ref 2. Infrared magazine: Press Contact: Dawn Jones, Pressed PR Non-RS.
 * Ref 3. This is an annoucement.
 * Ref 4. This is a blog.
 * Ref 5. Ref 5 is Spotify. A non-notable podcast.
 * Ref 6. Ref 6 is an annoucement of a release of song on a clickbait site.
 * Ref 7. Ref 7 is the same clickbait site.
 * Ref 8. Ref 8. Same clickbait site.
 * Ref 9. Ref 9 is the same clickbait site.
 * Ref 10. And again the same site.

There is no sources that arenot created by PR and no secondary sources for a BLP. It is all indicate of a pop singer has only started, and there is no independent coverage.  scope_creep Talk  15:32, 21 June 2021 (UTC) For such a short period of time she has done more than most of the local pop artists and she is constantly present on domestic radio stations as well as on pop playlists around the globe. I would not rush on deleting the page at least for a year. Don't be surprised if she represents the country on next year's Eurovision Contest. Give music a chance in these tough times for the industry.
 * Keep - Andrea is the only macedonian artist that launched an international career in the middle of a pandemic.
 * Comment: Conversely, we could delete the page and then she can be added again in a year when she's actually notable. ExRat (talk) 18:58, 23 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Comment - Subject meets multiple criteria for notability. Sources are in 5 languages, none from other ex-Yu countries, and include largest TV station in Albania and largest independent press agency in Bulgaria. As to the first comment, agree that ex-Yu is not a country, it's 7 countries, so it actually enhances notability. As to second comment, that site is scraping data, no reason to question its veracity, though I too find the ads annoying. Yes, subject is relatively new, but has had 7 songs chart, with coverage around the world. If time were spent culling through other Macedonian artists with entries, at least 95 percent, probably more, do not have this level of notability or accomplishment.AlekGru (talk)
 * Where is the coverage? Put up three references per WP:THREE so we can have look at them. Quality references are important for a BLP.  scope_creep Talk  09:35, 23 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment: AlekGru, you don't get two votes in a deletion discussion. You have already voted once. ExRat (talk) 18:34, 23 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment: Of the references that meet notability for WP:MUS for being a featured subject of a substantial broadcast segment on national TV (refs 9, 14, 15, 23 and 27), I would choose 9 - a 20+ minute (redacted, so the original is likely longer) appearance on one of the most popular shows on Televizioni Klan, Albania's largest broadcaster. Hundreds of thousands watch live, YT subscribers number over 1.3 million, and it's virtually unheard of to invite a Macedonian guest, particularly one who is not of ethnic Albanian origin. Of the music reviews that contain original material (refs 4, 5, 7, 8, and 30), I would pick 30, though the others would work as well, as it also confirms national radio rotation (a second, unneeded qualification for WP:MUS notability) in Bulgaria and Macedonia. Of the podcasts, I would choose ref 12, a U.S. podcast broadcast regularly for 7+ years and distributed on multiple platforms. I would note that this subject has dozens of other source materials, including other national TV and radio appearances, and the article can continue to be improved. The article is vastly more sourced than any other subject listed on Macedonian pop singers, and subject is notable now as having put together the best year of any Macedonian pop singer since Toše Proeski.AlekGru (talk)
 * Remember to add a signature. There five references are all Yutube videos.

These are very very low viewing for a supposed muscian. Fails WP:MUSICBIO and more so WP:SIGCOV.  scope_creep Talk  03:11, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Ref 9 has 64k views, which is not indicative of rising pop star,
 * Ref 4 is a blog is WP:SPS and non-rs.
 * Ref 14 has been watched by 217 people.
 * Ref 15 by 73 people.
 * Ref 23 is facebook. It is non-RS. I don't know who got to add this in, but they have no idea of wikipedia policies.
 * Ref 27 by 1219 people.
 * Ref 4, 5 and 7 are junk.
 * The viewing numbers of the YouTube videos (and the fact that they are YouTube videos) isn't really relevant if they are copies of segments broadcast on national TV (we don't care how many people read a published book on google books, we only care that it has been published). Furius (talk) 09:51, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes we do. When there is nobody watching it, there is no fans. That is the core it. Only fans generate coverage. Magazines and Newspapers don't generate coverage unless fans first generate some waves. Up until that point they are unknown as this person is.   scope_creep Talk  10:02, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment:No, you are making up guidelines that do not exist, and you are not addressing the argument that was made (ie, YT views are irrelevant, when it's a re-broadcast from a major station, which is true. There is a reason the guidelines state national broadcaster). You asked for WP:THREE, and got refs 9, 12, and 30. Your only response to these is to the YouTube views on a popular show on the largest broadcaster in Albania that is watched by hundreds of thousands of people live. Your conclusions are overly broad and not justified by the guidelines. Televizioni Klan is a reliable source, it is a national broadcaster, and she received significant coverage on it. She is the subject of multiple appearances on national broadcasters and is in rotation on multiple national radio stations. All of this in more than one country. This meets multiple stated criteria of notability WP:MUSICBIO despite your protestations.AlekGru (talk)
 * Dude, if I thought for 1 second that she was notable, I would be fighting to keep the article, you can be sure of that.   scope_creep Talk  14:57, 25 June 2021 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   06:35, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete. This is very poorly sourced, and much of it is unsourced completely. If it must be kept, I would suggest strongly that the closing admin stubbify this page. Bearian (talk) 00:58, 8 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete agree with Bearian, a very very poorly-sourced BLP, no WP:SIGCOV from reliable sources (instead the keep !voters seem to be trying to slide through blogs, social media, etc. as RS). Daniel (talk) 05:50, 14 July 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.