Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Andrew & Alaina Mack


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont)  09:14, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

Andrew & Alaina Mack

 * – ( View AfD View log )

An impressive 29 references, and claims of global recognition and a number one in specialized German charts.

However, the sources are mostly self-published, or blogs, or other minor or unreliable sources, nothing that actually seems to give notability. I can't find any evidence that they topped any charts, and the very, very limited hits I get when searching for the album indicates that this hasn't made much of an impact. Searching for the duo gives equally poor results. Fram (talk) 14:14, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

*Keep. As the creator of this page, I welcome robust and honest assessment of all content on Wikipedia. Only through a vetting of sources and material can we ensure that articles created on this platform fulfill the mission and standards of Wikipedia. The user above rightly mentions that there are 29 sources cited for this article. I believe these sources can be expanded and some may be unnecessary. What the user fails to mention is that the Berlin Tagesspiegel, Berlin Morgenpost, Arte are quoted as sources verifying the claims made in the article. These are irrefutably reputable and well-respected publications and each source mentioned is an entire article or interview pertaining to the claims mentioned, not merely a passing comment. Additionally, CCM Magazine's Ross Culver, a well-respected and notable publication and journalist in the Christian scene, dedicates an entire article to the release of their work, also cited in the article. Of the sources mentioned only one is a source that can be considered self-published, therefore the above statement that the sources are mainly self-published is inaccurate. If the community would feel that the cited claim of placement on German charts be removed, I would support this change. An alternative would be that the multiple interviews cited in the article be cited as support for this claim, including the source from Arte which clearly states this fact. But I also agree to removing this sentence. Additionally, the user above when linking to external Google searches does not provide accurate search results and actually searches incorrectly the artists name. An accurate search will reveal that the artists mentioned in the article have multiple other published works including releases in Mandarin Chinese. I would recommend adding information about these additional publications to the article. Finally, I do believe that regional importance can play a important role in notability and should be considered especially in an industry where European artists are under-represented on Wikipedia. While the Gospel music scene in Europe is inherently smaller than its North American counterpoint, to use the same standards universally for similar artists without considering geographical and regional differences would be unfair and unhelpful for the Wikipedia community and for its readers. This page will bring value to understanding the European Gospel music scene and I would hope that not only this page but other similar artists will be able to be represented on this platform for their contributions to Gospel music in Europe. Christian Trautenberg (talk) 18:46, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
 * The Tagesspiegel and the Morgenpost are sources from 2004 about their parents, and don't even mention Andrew and Alaina. So these sources have no bearing at all on the notability of this musical duo. Fram (talk) 07:54, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

*Keep. I completely agree with the initial user's comments but I do not believe they accurately pertain to this page, which is why I am recommending: keep this page. I would offer criticism to the page creator that some of the sources, as the creator openly stated, should be consolidated as some are cited twice. I must, however, suggest that the sources mentioned should not be considered self-published or “minor blogs” because these sources are indeed reputable within the societal segment they are associated with. The page clearly meets the standard for notability but some of the word-usages in the article could be refined to provide more neutrality. For example, in the opening paragraph, to utilize the word “worldwide”, while factually true and properly sourced, implies scale when the competition may not be as “worldwide” as for example the Grammy’s. A possible remedy to this could be to simply state “several” instead of “worldwide”. This brings greater neutrality but may not be necessary. Regarding the claim as to the specialized German charts, I would not cite the interviews as a source for the claim because they provide supporting evidence as to the biographical information and a general consensus of facts to the claims. Josiah Adenegan (talk) 14:13, 15 May 2021 (UTC) — Startnow65 (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.


 * Delete per nom. CanadianOtaku  Talk Page 11:55, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

*Keep. I agree the article should be kept up. Angelika M. Schroeder (talk) 08:17, 21 May 2021 (UTC) — Angelika M. Schroeder (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.


 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Fram (talk) 14:14, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Christianity-related deletion discussions. Fram (talk) 14:14, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Germany-related deletion discussions. Fram (talk) 14:14, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. Fram (talk) 14:14, 14 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete - I did my due diligence and this musical duo does not meet WP:GNG nor WP:MUSIC. All mentions are in non-notable, non-significant podcasts or Christian publications, but, nothing significant that would reflect notability. Also, the German articles don't even mention the subjects by name, so those don't qualify. Missvain (talk) 14:53, 21 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment Also, a sockpuppet investigation has been opened and approved regarding the three "keeps" per Sockpuppet investigations/Christian Trautenberg. Missvain (talk) 15:02, 21 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Investigators have requested that admins block all three accounts. I have struck their comments. Missvain (talk) 15:59, 21 May 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.