Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Andrew Jack (RAF Sergeant)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Move to August 1942 Dunbeath Air Crash. Pinging @ as requested. I'll leave the moving etc. to you.  So Why  08:53, 10 July 2017 (UTC)

Andrew Jack (RAF Sergeant)

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WP:GNG not notable in itself, this article could be altered to create the accident article for the aircraft, which IS notable, due to the Duke of Kent being one of the caualties Petebutt (talk) 08:39, 24 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. Zeke, the Mad Horrorist  (Speak quickly) (Follow my trail) 08:56, 24 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. Zeke, the Mad Horrorist  (Speak quickly) (Follow my trail) 08:56, 24 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Aviation-related deletion discussions. Zeke, the Mad Horrorist  (Speak quickly) (Follow my trail) 08:56, 24 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of United Kingdom-related deletion discussions. Zeke, the Mad Horrorist  (Speak quickly) (Follow my trail) 08:56, 24 June 2017 (UTC)


 * Redirect (that is to say, move) to an article about the accident itself, adjusting the content to reflect this. WP:SOLDIER, while only an essay, is a very sensible approach to take that prevents Wikipedia from being over-populated by biographies of non-notable members of the world's military bodies. Exemplo347 (talk) 09:28, 24 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete Jack is not really noteworthy for a stand-alone article, also oppose an article on the accident as this has recently been created and then redirected to Prince George, Duke of Kent where the notability lies and already deals with the accident. MilborneOne (talk) 17:21, 24 June 2017 (UTC)
 * As the Nominator, I second Milbornes solution for re-direct to the Duke of York article, which already has fair coverage of the crash.--Petebutt (talk) 05:17, 25 June 2017 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Rename to August 1942 Dunbeath Air Crash (or similar).  As the article seems to be mostly about the crash, which is notable in its own right per WP:AIRCRASH] and the amount of detail would be WP:UNDUE in the Prince George, Duke of Kent, article, I would suggest transforming it into an article about the crash. Hawkeye7 (talk) 22:15, 24 June 2017 (UTC)
 * If the AfD closes with a consensus for what we've suggested (the move & content adjustment) then I'd appreciate a ping from the closing Admin because I don't think it'd take me a lot of effort to make the appropriate changes. Exemplo347 (talk) 02:04, 25 June 2017 (UTC)
 * I am endorsing this solution, per, which I believe is in line with WP:PRESERVE, as the crash passes WP:AIRCRASH Hawkeye7 (talk) 22:17, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep per our editing policy. Andrew D. (talk) 08:30, 25 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete There's no WP:GNG.-- Georgia Army Vet  Contribs  Talk  17:11, 25 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete, not notable for stand alone article; can be mentioned in article on 228 Squadron. Kierzek (talk) 15:49, 26 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete. NN NCO/junior officer. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:15, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Rename to August 1942 Dunbeath Air Crash (or similar). Remove most Andrew Jack material (which as it is - is not the major part of the article), while mentioning he was the sole survivor, add air-crash template instead of bio. The crash itself was highly notable - and the article as it is is essentially about the crash and not Jack.Icewhiz (talk) 12:43, 28 June 2017 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  MBisanz  talk 01:40, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete -- non notable jr officer. There's no need for a move as the incident is not sufficiently notable either. K.e.coffman (talk) 02:49, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Endorse view that the crash is sufficiently notable and the material would be well suited to an article about it. I am not sure Jack himself is notable, but I think in cases like this WP:PRESERVE supports not deleting but suggests a number of alternatives (as Andrew D. suggests). Smmurphy(Talk) 17:43, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Rename and trim to August 1942 Dunbeath air crash (or similar) per Hawkeye7. The incident is clearly notable because there will be plenty of reliable sources about it because the Duke of Kent was killed in the crash. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 10:04, 3 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Rename as the crash is notable, but keep the details of the lone survivor. It's only a short article so there is no need to trim. Gaia Octavia Agrippa Talk 20:48, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete, not notable may add to existing articles on 228 Squadron. Rafiq Marbaros (talk) 05:01, 7 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Endorse the recommendation to Rename to August 1942 Dunbeath Air Crash (or similar). Not a huge event, perhaps, and my read of AIRCRASH indicates that essay is not policy and should not be applied to stand-alone accident articles, it being recommended that it not be cited at Articles for Deletion discussions for either keeping or deleting. Nonetheless, there are interesting aspects of who was on the plane, of a possible cover up of the duke being at the pilot's position, the intrigue of the duke possibly being bisexual and drug-using, a possible mysterious unknown person aboard who was possibly unauthorized, the mystery of what was the "special mission", a lone survivor, and a physically substantial Celtic cross memorial marking the crash site on the moor. It would be an utter shame to delete. Dioldo (talk) 00:30, 10 July 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.