Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Andrew Kahn


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. Courcelles 03:14, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Andrew Kahn

 * – ( View AfD View log )

Article does not meet notability guidelines and is likely an promotional "autobiography" of a non-notable individual. There is one main contributor to the article, who I believe is its subject and thus holds a conflict of interest. He is also the one who created the article in the first place. He removed the ProD tag that I placed there earlier this month, apparently before admin could examine the article for deletion. ask123 (talk) 18:54, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions.  — I, Jethrobot drop me a line (note: not a bot!) 21:02, 18 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep This article from JazzTimes and this article from Atlantic Weekly appear to be independent and cover the subject in-depth. This brief description of his concert series also seems legitimate.  I agree the current article is needs to be cleaned up, but these sources seem to be suitable. I, Jethrobot drop me a line (note: not a bot!) 21:11, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete Yes, I saw the Jazz Times article -- the only source of the bunch that even approaches suitability (the rest are blogs and user-contributed sites) -- but the information contained in is mostly non-notable, like him being an occasional performer in Jazz club shows in Philadelphia and his having played music since childhood. The only potentially notable piece of info is the mention his "writing and producing" Karen Young's Hot Shot. However, even that bit is found nowhere else except the blogs and other user-contributed websites that he has conveniently provided. Moreover, I suspect that that piece of info entered the Jazz Times article because Andy Kahn told it to the writer, not because it was actually investigated. I actually see no clear evidence that he wrote or produced the song and think that he is either creating his own history or, if not, needs better sourcing to prove notability. ask123 (talk) 21:32, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
 * What evidence do you have that Andy Kahn simply "told it to the writer" and that the info in the JazzTimes article was "not investigated?" I, Jethrobot drop me a line (note: not a bot!) 21:51, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Also, Atlantic Weekly is not simply a blog, and it contains a typical staff and independent editors like any news source. The content is not user generated.  Please read here. I, Jethrobot drop me a line (note: not a bot!) 21:54, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Jethrobot, yes I saw the Atlantic City Weekly article. It covers Kahn's recital at the Ocean Club Condominiums apartment complex in A.C, NJ. Respectfully, if that is grounds for notability, then every guy playing a piano in a retirement community in South Florida should have a Wikipedia page too. This and also the Jazz Times article describe an interior design consultant and part-time piano player with a deep love of music. In each of them, there is a one sentence mention that Kahn "produced" and "wrote" a dance song in the 70s. Did they make a call to West End Records to verify? I don't know. But what I do know is that ACW is the most local of community zines. It pubishes non-notable stuff and word-of-mouth every week of the year. For whatever reason, it decided to cover Kahn's recital at the condominium -- maybe Kahn phoned the magazine or maybe the condo wanted to get its name in the paper -- and I'm sure that after hearing Kahn wax nostalgic about Hot Shot, that bit made its way into the article too, in the form of a 1 sentence mention. I'm suggesting this because I wasn't born yesterday...and, also, I worked in publishing for years. Writers make judgements. It happens all the time, especially in ultra-small papers. You may see this as just an accusation, but I'm just illustrating the dearth of sourcing that exists here. You must take a common sense approach. It's a lot of word of mouth and assumption and 2 extremely small publications. I see little to lead me to believe that the information on Andy Kahn on the internet didn't come from Andy Kahn himself. Of course, this aside, assuming these 2 sources are 100% reliable, then maybe you can make the case that his work on Hot Shot offers notability, although I can't say with certainty what is true role in the creation of the song was. Was he the main writer or is he an uncredited writer who made a line-change. Did he produce the work or was he an audio engineer. I just can't be sure about any of it given the information that exists. But, if you give the benefit of the doubt to all of this uncertainty, then we're talking about a one, maybe two sentence article on the guy. That's all that's includable. I know that many articles start off as stubs and grow into beautiful oak trees, but unless Kahn suddenly gets a big break, I think this will remain a 1 sentence article forever. Respectfully, ask123 (talk) 00:20, 19 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Note to Admin - This AFD was malformed. The article did not have an AFD notice on it.  I have just added the notice and the listing period should be extended accordingly. -- Whpq (talk) 15:08, 20 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep - The Jazz Times article noted above is a reliable source and contributes to establish notability. The Atlantic Weekly is a reliable sources but as a local guide, contributes less strongly to establishing notability.  However, he is the composer of a hit song sharing credit with one other person as noted in the ASCAP entry. -- Whpq (talk) 15:12, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the link, WHpq. If the results indicate "keep," then I will edit out non-notable information accordingly. Cheers, ask123 (talk) 15:53, 20 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:01, 25 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep He appears to meet the WP:GNG, I've trimmed back the unsourced stuff on his article and cited a couple sources that have been mentioned here. Qrsdogg (talk) 15:29, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
 * * Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Jazz notified. AllyD (talk) 18:45, 25 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Week Keep - But only barely meets notability requirements. I could go either way on this one. --Noleander (talk) 22:00, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.