Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Andy Hill (film music supervisor)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   merge to Andy Hill (American composer). (non-admin closure) - The Herald (here I am) 16:11, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

Andy Hill (film music supervisor)

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 * This article is very different from article A.W. Hill, but are they about the same man? If so, text-merge them, and under what name? Or has one of the articles got an image of the wrong man? Or what? Anthony Appleyard (talk) 05:28, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Merge and rename - Clearly the same person. The image is of the same guy, both articles point to awhill.net in the external links. Ghostrider51 is the creator of A.W. Hill. Derwydd23, whom I very strongly suspect of being a secondary account of Ghostrider51's is the creator of the duplicate article. Ghostrider51 calls this image a self-portrait. If Derwydd23 is, in fact, a secondary account, it would be somewhat certain that he is continuing his self-promotion through the creation of the Andy Hill (film music supervisor). One of the obvious indications that these are the same editors, is this edit where Ghostrider51 changes the signature belonging to Derwydd23, with no clear explanation. Further evidence that the article subjects are the same person:
 * 1) "Andy Hill was born in Chicago", "A.W. Hill ... grew up in the Midwest". Chicago is a major Midwestern US city.
 * 2) While I would never propose LinkedIn as a reliable source for inclusion in an article, I think it's sound for getting our ducks in a row. I found this LinkedIn profile which mentions both his Elmo in Grouchland Grammy, as well as his novel writing as A.W. Hill. (See Publications section) This might just be mirroring Wikipedia content without attribution, so I wouldn't use it as a source, but if it is unique content, it seems to reflect that the guy wears mutiple hats.
 * 3) A.W. Hill's Twitter account says that he's a composer and author.
 * 4) Ghostrider added this author's profile to A.W. Hill in these edits, which states, "A.W. Hill is the author of previous Stephan Raszer novels ... He is a Grammy Award-winning music supervisor for films".
 * I don't think there's any question it's the same dude, although it would be nice if (aka Mr. Hill) would just clarify this already, since it's only causing confusion that is on the cusp of disruptive. We have many subjects that wear different hats. George Carlin is a legendary comedian who also wrote numerous books. We don't have unique articles for George Carlin (comedian) and George Carlin (author) or for Leonardo da Vinci (inventor) and Leonardo da Vinci (painter). Considering Andy Hill is most notable for his Grammy award for music production, I think the main article should be Andy Hill (American music producer) and his literary works should be secondary to that article. It should also be noted that A.W. Hill has recently been edited by Ghostrider51 to include a lot of unsourced fluff, and I think there's a strong conflict of interest situation happening here, which needs monitoring. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 06:51, 12 January 2015 (UTC)


 * This complicates matters. File:Andy Hill, Music Supervisor 2014.jpg is A.W.Hill alias Andy Hill. And Ghostrider51 calls it a self-portrait. It was uploaded to Wikipedia at 17:57, 15 January 2014‎ by Ghostrider51. So, one of these may have happened:-
 * (1) Andy Hill made a self-portrait (selfie), which Ghostrider51 get hold of somehow and uploaded (with what permission?); where "self" in the image's licence means Andy Hill and not Ghostrider51.
 * (2) Andy Hill is Ghostrider51???
 * Anthony Appleyard (talk) 10:12, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Looks like I'm wrong about the self-portrait thing. I've stricken it out. If the user is claiming to be the copyright holder of a selfie, that would suggest one of two most likely things: he is the subject of the photo/article, or the uploader filled out the fields incorrectly while uploading the photo. The latter is likely. It's not the most significant part of my argument, anyway. And we've finally gotten to the bottom of whether or not A.W. Hill and Andy Hill are the same person in the comments below. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 17:25, 12 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions.  B E C K Y S A Y L E S  11:18, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions.  B E C K Y S A Y L E S  11:18, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletion discussions.  B E C K Y S A Y L E S  11:19, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions.  B E C K Y S A Y L E S  11:19, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

Re: Articles for Deletion: Andy Hill
Jeez. I suppose I should be flattered by all the attention you're giving this, but where do you find the time? ;D I'm no longer sure of exactly whom I'm communicating with, so I'll just hope that this reaches all concerned with the case. First, with respect to the user ID, I will happily delete the secondary account for Derwydd23 if Wikipedia will cut me a little slack and desist with the ad hominem characterizations and some of the "in-group" value judgement. I can see that this is not going to go away, as you clearly have me in your sights, so let's figure out a way to resolve this to everyone's satisfaction. Secondly, reference was made to "fluff" added to the A.W. Hill article, but this material was added expressly in response to your requirement for citations. The Judith Freeman and Ian Rankin quotes are a matter of public record, and both people are the subject of their own Wikipedia articles. Finally, with respect to your characterization of the article as "self-promotion," this is also a value judgement. I can certainly understand that you don't want Wikipedia used as a billboard or advertising platform, but if the professional accomplishments of the subject meet your notability requirements and the article is formatted properly, does it truly matter if a living person gains some "promotional" value from a listing on your site? God knows this is a terrible time to be a writer of new fiction, and the very first thing that editors (which is what I am) and publishers recommend is a Wikipedia listing. So tell me what I need to do to pass muster with all of you. All the best. Ghostrider51 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 16:06, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure which ad hominem characterizations you are referring to. Toward Andy Hill? Or toward you? I don't think the latter has occurred, unless you are referring to my use of "self-promotion", which at this point seems inaccurate if the correct noun is "promotion". Skipping past that, if you have a conflict of interest, you are highly discouraged from editing this article yourself. As for "in-group value judgement", this is a global encyclopedia run by a community of editors—"in-group value judgement" is going to happen as we evaluate the worth of the content being included. This is another reason why people with a close association to the subject shouldn't edit the subject's article—it can be painful and insulting. They don't mention that in WP:COI, though. So shall we assume that A.W. Hill and Andy Hill are the same person?  Do you have any arguments to make for why we would need multiple articles for the same guy? Cyphoidbomb (talk) 17:15, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

Further to Deletion Discussion: Andy Hill (Music Supervisor) and A.W. Hill (Author)
Just to clarify the situation (though it seems you have it pretty well sussed out, yes, Andy Hill, the Grammy-winning film music supervisor/producer and music educator, and A.W. Hill, the American novelist, are the same human being. However, they operate in two entirely different cultural and professional spheres, A.W. Hill is a pen name (like Anne Rice's A.N. Roquelaire), and A.W. Hill the author strongly prefers that coverage of his writing endeavors be treated "as if" he were, in fact, a different person. This is certainly not unheard of in the arts world. There are painters who paint under one name and dance under another, and such has been the case going back to the Renaissance. So please let me know if there is a "legitimate" way that the bios can be kept distinct. If not, I will composer a new article about A.W. Hill alone, and we will allow deletion of the Andy Hill article to stand. Thank you. Derwydd23 (talk) 16:58, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the clarification. For the record: A. N. Roquelaure is a redirect to Ann Rice, not a unique article. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 17:18, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Derwydd23 is a confirmed sock of Ghostrider51. Mike V • Talk 17:44, 12 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Merge - It is the same person, and neither article is anywhere near the point that its so long it needs to be split off. Go with the WP:COMMONNAME as the article title, and use the other name as a redirect. Identify both in bold in the lead. Sergecross73   msg me  18:55, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Agreed, . My one note is that Andy Hill is a disambiguation page, and there are a few other Andy Hills. Hence my suggestion that we find a way to disambiguate him: Andy Hill (American music producer) or (American composer) or something. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 16:34, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that's fine, I agree with that point too. I just meant have it either be based on the music or writer aspect based on which one he was most known for. Something like "American music producer" would be a better, and more commonly phrased, disambiguation. Sergecross73   msg me  19:15, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 12:18, 13 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Administrator comment. This is clearly going to be closed merge. Please propose a definite merge title so the close can be carried. SpinningSpark 02:16, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
 * The subject has a Grammy for music production, which makes him more notable for that than his books. I propose Andy Hill (American music producer) because there is already an article about a British subject, Andy Hill (composer), which could be confusing without national disambiguation being provided along with a disambiguation in notability. Our Andy Hill is also a composer. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 03:31, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.