Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Andy Lee Graham


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   speedily deleted per CSD G7 Non-admin closure. Safiel (talk) 00:44, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Andy Lee Graham

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Subject appears to fail WP:GNG. A Google search brings up nothing of note on the subject. Article is an autobiography. PROD was declined by an IP that is likely the author. Safiel (talk) 01:06, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete There are 16 references on the page. 7 to the subjects website. 9 do not mention the subject. Notability not established. Given that someone has spent some time putting this together I'm guessing that the reliable sources aren't out there. Happy to be proved wrong, as always. Tigerboy1966 (talk) 01:25, 16 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Commment by article creator I went and fixed, and your group deleted, if you allow me to add, as it say, I will complete as needed. Andy Lee Graham (talk) 01:36, 16 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Delete - Fails GNG. Self-sourced and pretty clearly promotional in intent. None of the best 4 links in the footnotes (National Geographic, NY Times, Forbes, Guardian) seem to have hits for the word "Graham." Not seeing anything in a cursory Google search. Carrite (talk) 01:58, 16 January 2012 (UTC) Last edit: Carrite (talk) 02:01, 16 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Comment by article creator I put up more references, and fixed, and they delete them.

Read the sites I am listed on, and try to understand what it means to nomadically travel for 13 year. I put: | ALTERNATIVE NAMES = Andy the HoboTraveler.com

IYou are searching for Andy Graham, and if you look at the page, it as for a second name. I have always called myself Andy the HoboTraveler.com in my last 6000 post. I have refused interviews, and only in the last year have my photo on the net. While the promoters "Travel Blogger" who have not went to Iraq, Haiti, or 90 countries, but twitter are consider notable.

I am the longesst running travelogue blogger on the planet 2003 until now, 6000 plus post, and 2000 photo. I am the longest running perpetual traveler on the planet, starting in 2003, and to put on the links coming to the pages seem silly until there is a page.

NatGeo TV will interview me shortly, and if you look at the list my Blog is listed on, they all have editors. NatGeo, Forbes.com, About.com Frommers Budget Travel.

It appears that writing about travel is important, but real extreme travel is not. I have done both, I have done the extreme travel and also written about it, my mistake is not wanting "Travel Writers" writing about me, because they fudge the fact and want to romantisize the truth. I am in the Dominican Republic right now, before I go to Nigeria and travel by land to South Africa. The travel blogger, such as Gary Arnt are in the USA, while I am a real traveler. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Arndt

Note, the list of pages where I am listed as "Top Travel Blogger," alone should make you aware who I am in the world of travel blogger, I am the top, number one. Using a google.com search is not a the way to research, when I give you the references.

I was at the Wikipedia.org convention in Frankfurt, when invited by the Harvard group of Bloggers.

I see you have a problem with me submitting, whether real or not real does not appear to be the fact finding mission, please allow me to expand.

And, if nothing else, then please delete "Twitter" experts from your list of Travel Bloggers, or include real traveler like me who are not self promoters, we only want to be associate with factual sites like Wikepedia.org. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Arndt

By the way, you guys need to include Gregory Hubbs from Transitions abroad, you deleted him, you did the same, he is by far even more prominent than me. Thanks for leaving Johnny Jet, another friend of mine who is an old timer like me. Andy Lee Graham (talk) 01:46, 16 January 2012 (UTC) Many more references added about extreme "Adventure Travel" and "Travel Writer", I can add another 100-200 if you want. I have not allowed people to interview me, therefore they normally just write about me as the source, the known expert, sage, etc, more or less the travelers consider me the old time expert, not something new to write about. I do not self-promote by doing interviews, but I have been traveling for 14 year, this means that google.com has put a lot of the first stuff in supplemental and not easy to find. Andy Lee Graham (talk) 10:43, 16 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Comment There are now 42 sources. If you take out the subjects own website, sources that don't mention the subject, and user-generated content we are left with 1. That is a brief interview with a Swedish newspaper from March 2010. That however, is clearly a primary source, so still no evidence of notability. Article's creator seems to have copied the article directly onto his user page, which seems a bit odd to say the least. Also very obvious COI issues. Tigerboy1966 (talk) 11:13, 16 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Delete Claims to notability under 'Awards and Accolades' are not reflected by the sources used. Clovis Sangrail (talk) 11:59, 16 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Delete Blatant attempt to abuse Wikipedia by using it to publish a self-promotional vanity page on a subject which does not come anywhere near to satisfying any of Wikipedia's notability guidelines. JamesBWatson (talk) 15:26, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 15:34, 16 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Comment Update. Another eleven sources, and still none of them are any use at all in establishing notability. And as JBW points out, it's a promotional article with no place on WP. Tigerboy1966 (talk) 16:43, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Andy Lee Graham is the same as Andy the HoboTraveler.com as is HoboTraveler.com or the link http://www.hobotraveler.com/blogger.html (All are the same person, Andy Lee Graham — Preceding unsigned comment added by Andy Lee Graham (talk • contribs) 17:02, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Please read a similar person who Wiki already sees as notable. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Arndt

Please read Tim Leffel who wrote the Book Travel Writing 2.0 which is one of the references. http://travelwriting2.com/who-has-the-biggest-circulation-now/

Please remove anything that is not fact, or that is not used correctly. Andy Lee Graham (talk) 17:01, 16 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Commment Andy Graham is the original digital nomad. He set forth directly the lifestyle in 2000 that Matt Kepnes, Gary Arnt, and even myself, Wade Shepard of vagabondjoureny.com, copied and further innovated. He was one of the first to use travel blogging as a method of serious travel writing and to chronicle the day to day events of the world we live in. If other travel bloggers seem more "notability" than him its because Andy never tried to woo fame, opting instead to let his work do the talking for him. If ANY travel blogger/ writer deserves a page on WP it's him -- he's the guy we copied and emulated, he blazed the path so to speak.    — Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.133.157.76 (talk) 15:50, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

It is certainly the case that, among perpetual travelers and also among more casual tourists, 'hobotraveler.com' is a well known brand, and I have been surprised there wasn't already a page about the site on Wikipedia. Wikipedia is, for me, the repository of the world's knowledge, a kind of digital Alexandria, and so it should have information about things like this. I'm happy to lend a hand drafting something about hobotraveler.com if someone can start a page-in-progress? (EDIT: sorry, my session timed out and the previous comment did not show as signed).--Ashbeck001 (talk) 20:54, 16 January 2012 (UTC) — Ashbeck001 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Commment Perhaps it might be best to post an article about Hobotraveler.com since this is much better known? I believe Andy has only 'revealed' his identity beyond the moniker 'Andy Hobotraveler.com' in the last year or two? I remember when I was planning my gap year, I found the tips and country information on Hobotraveler.com invaluable, and far more useful for practical information than anything on Lonelyplanet.com or even the actual guide book. I think there is a genuine need for an article about the website hobotraveler.com, and many of the 'accolades and awards' refer to this website. Such an article could mention that it was founded and is run/ about Andy Graham, but the key thing that is useful for an encyclopaedia is the actual work. Would this be a workable solution?

I believe in the pursuit of knowledge and wisdom, and helping my fellow man to learn of new worlds. What is happening here is pursuite of rules, this is the path the savvy traveler avoids. Andy Lee Graham (talk) 21:42, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment I have tagged for CSD G7 per the author's blanking of the page three times and per the author's comment on his talk page. Safiel (talk) 23:20, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.