Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Angelic Society


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. (non-admin closure)  Rcsprinter123    (rap)  @ 19:06, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

Angelic Society

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There is no evidence that such a society ever existed outside Michael Lamy's work. ObscurityPrince (talk) 14:39, 28 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. NorthAmerica1000 15:27, 28 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep Actually there is quite a lot of evidence that the society did exist, if not in the form expressed by Michael Lamy. The nineteenth-century scholar Henri Baudrier spoke of Sebastian Gryphius's printshop as a « société angélique pour les libres-penseurs ». Un illustre imprimeur lyonnais à la BU : Sébastien Gryphe (1492-1556) (in French) Charles Dickens mentioned Rabelais's membership. Here are two mentions by Claude Sosthène Grasset d'Orcet:
 * Matériaux Cryptographiques - Tome 1, Les Trois R, "Le Songe de Poliphile" (June 1881), page 272
 * C’est plutôt une imitation qu’une traduction qui a dû servir, comme tous les ouvrages de ce genre, de formulaire d’initiation à quelque cénacle de savants et d’artistes, tel que celui que le grand imprimeur lyonnais Gryphe avait fondé sous le nom de Société Angélique, ce qui indique une société placée sous le patronage ultra-maçonnique de saint Gille, dont les adeptes avaient pris pour cimier une tête d’ange (chef angel). Étienne Dolet et Bonaventure Despériers, qui finirent tous deux si misérablement, appartenaient comme Rabelais à cette société si étrangement angélique. Where he says ... "such as the one founded by Gryphius], the well-known printer from Lyon, which took as its name Société Angélique, was under the Masonic patronage of [[Saint Giles, and took as their chief symbol (crest) the head of an angel."
 * Matériaux Cryptographiques - Tome 1, Les Trois R, "Le Songe de Poliphile" (June 1881), page 290
 * Il y parle tantôt au nom de son frère, et tantôt au nom de ses frères, sans les nommer, ce qui semble indiquer que ces derniers ne sont pas des frères selon la nature, mais les adeptes d’une loge semblable à la Société Angélique dont Rabelais. Where he says ... "Sometimes he speaks from the point of view of his brother, and sometimes from the point of view of his brethern, without naming them, suggesting that they are not brothers by sanguinity, but are rather members of the same lodge of (or belong to) the Société Angélique of which Rabelais was a member.
 * See also the web pages Patrick Berlier – La Société Angélique – Documents and La Société Angélique - regards du pilat (both in French) for quotes of further remarks by Grasset d’Orcet, and a discussion of their meaning. It seems that the society was a group of scholars and writers with some masonic trappings, and functioned more as an idea clearing house than as a secret-society. It was secret only to the extent that the Ancien Régime feared and sometimes repressed the new ideas that were the stock in trade of the society. It was formed in Lyon during the "Lyon Renaissance". The deep conspiracy aspects do seem to be entirely the creation of Michel Lamy. The article should probably be renamed Société Angélique rather than the current name which is not that au courant. --Bejnar (talk) 19:59, 28 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, czar ♔   21:00, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

 
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, NorthAmerica1000 00:37, 13 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep. The material cited above seems sufficient.  DGG ( talk ) 18:38, 20 October 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.