Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Angola at the Big Four pageants


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Courcelles 00:06, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Angola at the Big Four pageants

 * – ( View AfD View log )

The concept of a "Big Four" or "Grand Slam" series of pageants has already been deleted by Articles for deletion/GRAND SLAM BEAUTIES and Articles for deletion/Big Four Pageants + Miss TQI. This is essentially the same content, only spread across many different country articles, which are also included in the nomination. O Fenian (talk) 18:20, 13 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Also included. O Fenian (talk) 18:41, 13 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Fashion-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 19:18, 13 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Delete - WP:SYNTH and WP:CFORK, already exist as Miss Brazil, Miss Angola, Czech Miss, Miss World Czech Republic, Miss Georgia (country), Miss Venezuela, Miss Mongolia, Miss Pakistan World, Miss Vietnam, Miss Universe Vietnam, Puteri Indonesia, Miss Indonesia, and several more which are actual articles about national pageants and their national titleholders, and these additional articles only aim to promote a neologism. There don't seem to be reliable sources that identify them as "Grand Slam" or "Big Four". Wikipedia  isn't for terms made up by pageant fanatics who use Wikipedia to advance a position or promote usage of a term. WP:NEO is applicable. --John KB (talk) 22:18, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep all This appears to be a case of deleting articles because of objections to the title. I suppose that one could rename it "Angola at the Miss Universe, Miss World, Miss International and	Miss Earth pageants", or one could split each of these into four separate articles ("Angola at the Miss Universe pageant", "Angola at the Miss World pageant", etc.).  In that the information doesn't exist elsewhere, deletion is the most extreme fix to the so-called problem here.  Mandsford 03:39, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
 * It is not just an objection to the name, it is an objection to the entire concept of there being a "grand slam" or "big four" series of pageants and presenting the results of those tournaments together in a single article regardless of what name it is. The information does exist elsewhere already, just not combined in articles that are original research. O Fenian (talk) 09:25, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Courcelles 00:29, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Delete per O Fenian. Beauty contest claims that Miss Universe, Miss World, Miss International, and Miss Earth are considered the "big four pageants", but no source is provided to indicate who, exactly, considers them the big four pageants. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 02:55, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete - I have examined the articles, the past AfDs, and conducted my own Google searches, and I am unable to find evidence that the terms "Grand Slam" or "Big Four" have a notable meaning in the context of beauty pageants. (Most usages seem to stem from a crusade by the creator of these articles to popularise them, or through mirroring from Wikipedia content.)  I am likewise unable to find evidence of the concept of thes four pageants as a group being notable, under any name.  Therefore the articles do not cover a notable topic and should all be deleted. - DustFormsWords (talk) 03:04, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Rename and keep all - All articles should be kept as they are, but remove any mention of "Big Four" which is the main bone of contention. I don't think anyone is arguing with the validity of the contents of the articles themselves. To delete them because the concept of "Big Four" is wrong would be too drastic. Therefore, I would rename them all "COUNTRYNAME at worldwide beauty pageants" and leave it like that.--Tris2000 (talk) 13:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
 * --Actually, following on from my comment above, probably "COUNTRYNAME at beauty pageants" would be enough, as there's no reason why the individual countries' participation, success or otherwise at a continental level (eg Miss Africa, Miss Europe etc) could not also be included on these pages.--Tris2000 (talk) 13:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.