Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ann-Sophie Qvarnström


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus.  Sandstein  09:08, 11 October 2019 (UTC)

Ann-Sophie Qvarnström

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

The reason I think it should be deleted is because there's obviously not any significant coverage of her all. Her claim to fame is to have made maps for Swedish role playing games in the 1980's, but she's not received much coverage/mention outside of the occassional blog or forum post. Thoug the article might look well-sourced at a first glance, the only sources that seem to meet RS guidelines (a handful of articles that supposedly appeared in local newspapers) are not formatted properly and not verifiable, i.e. "Nya Kristinehamnsposten, 13 July 1990", "Kuriren, 3 July 1984", "Bergslagsposten, 2 July 1984" and "Jönköpings-Posten 12 July 1993". It's impossible to determine if whatever coverage she might have received in these articles would classify as "significant" - my guess is not. There's plenty of references provided as evidence that Former Deputy Prime Minister of Sweden Maud Olofsson often wore jewelry designed by Qvarnström but none of those actually mention Qvarnström but merely depict Olofsson wearing jewelry (supposedly made by Qvarnström), which obviously isn't relevant. I was able to find only one verifiable RS (not included in the article, but from Google News) where she is very briefly mentioned:

https://www.expressen.se/nyheter/inloggad/bland-mutanter-drakar-och-demoner/

"Den frilansande illustratören Ann-Sophie Qvarnström, i dag silversmed, anlitades ofta av för att rita främst kartor. Hon var också en hängiven spelare.

– Man måste komma ihåg att det här var långt innan datorerna slog igenom på bred front. Rollspelen gjorde att vi kunde bygga egna världar utan begränsningar. Det var så långt vi kunde komma på den tiden utan datorer, säger hon."

Google Translate:

"Freelance illustrator Ann-Sophie Qvarnström, today a silversmith, was often hired to draw mainly maps. She was also a dedicated player.

- You have to remember that this was a long time before computers broke through on a broad front. The role-playing games allowed us to build our own worlds without limitations. That was as far as we could get at that time without computers, she says. "

All in all this article seems like a vanity project. 110.165.186.42 (talk) 06:01, 25 September 2019 (UTC)


 * Comment Completing nomination on behalf of IP editor—above text is copied from nom's request at WT:AFD. I have no opinion of my own at this time. --Finngall talk  14:40, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk) — If (reply) then (ping me) 14:44, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Video games-related deletion discussions. Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk) — If (reply) then (ping me) 14:44, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Games-related deletion discussions. Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk) — If (reply) then (ping me) 14:44, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sweden-related deletion discussions. Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk) — If (reply) then (ping me) 14:44, 25 September 2019 (UTC)


 * Keep Andy Dingley (talk) 15:11, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Feel free to expand on that. I suspect this vote has more to do with wikihounding after a needless spat involving the Svante Thunberg AfD than the notability of this person, but to each their own.110.165.186.42 (talk) 03:25, 26 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete She's probably notable enough, but the article is crap. It was my very first attempt to translate an article from sv-wiki to en-wiki, so newbie-me had no clue about how things were done here. When prompted by other editors to expand the meager first translation, I went about this in a journalistic way intead of in an encyclopedic manner. Qvarnström was my test subject. Later, when I learned that you should not write articles about people you know well or are close to, I dropped this article completely. These days I know how to write good articles in a proper way, so if this is deleted, you'd be doing me a favor since this article is just an embarrassment to me. <em style="font-family:Verdana;color:DarkBlue">cart <em style="font-family:Verdana;color:DarkBlue">-Talk  16:40, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your vote. If she's notable enough, the article shouldn't be deleted, though. Currently her notability isn't established in the article, and I haven't been able to find any evidence on the web of her supposed notability, so I believe that assessment ("she's probably notable enough") is wrong. But I'd be happy to be proven wrong, of course. 110.165.186.42 (talk) 03:27, 26 September 2019 (UTC)
 * <small class="delsort-notice">Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fantasy-related deletion discussions. Necrothesp (talk) 09:55, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: So far we have a comprehensive delete nomination, an unsupported keep !vote, and a delete !vote that claims the topic is probably notable. So... I'm relisting this in case another editor desires to search for independent, reliable sources that would establish notability.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, 78.26  (spin me / revolutions) 17:11, 3 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep. I agree with User:W.carter that she's notable enough, but disagree that the article should be deleted – just fixed and pruned. The nominator has rightly pointed out that most of the references should simply be removed: in many cases they don't support the statements made. I've started working on it, removing some of the worst examples, and starting to replace them with something better. /Julle (talk) 01:20, 5 October 2019 (UTC)
 * <small class="delsort-notice">Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Artists-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 01:28, 5 October 2019 (UTC)


 * Delete, based on a search for English sourcing. The story might be different for Swedish sources. I can't find mush of anything, but have the sense that she might be notable in Swedish. There are many mentions of the illustrations, but nothing in-depth in English. I trimmed some of the promotional language in the article.ThatMontrealIP (talk) 03:07, 5 October 2019 (UTC)
 * I'm not quite sure I get the argument here. If there's not adequate English sources available (and I doubt there are, I mean, why would there be? I'd expect all valuable sources to be in Swedish; I didn't even start looking in English when I started adding better sources to this article yesterday), there shouldn't be an article on English Wikipedia? Our only policy around non-English sources are that English sources are preferable when decent sources in both English and other languages exist. /Julle (talk) 18:53, 5 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Just giving my opinion based on what I see in English. It so happens that I do not read Swedish.ThatMontrealIP (talk) 21:51, 5 October 2019 (UTC)
 * I'm the nominator and I speak Swedish. There is nothing available online that speaks to her notability in either Swedish or English. She does simply not meet WP:GNG.2001:240:2403:E03E:F418:CEDE:B75D:3119 (talk) 14:34, 6 October 2019 (UTC)
 * I don't doubt your assessment! I was just putting in a little conditional to my assessment. This is for the closing admin, as it can be useful for assessing the consensus.ThatMontrealIP (talk) 14:37, 6 October 2019 (UTC)


 * I think the editors that accepted this article, based that on the third notability criteria in WP:ARTIST: "3.The person has created or played a major role in co-creating a significant or well-known work or collective body of work.", rather than on what was written about her. Qvarnstöm did do the map illustration in more than 20 of the first roleplaying game modules in Sweden. That is why I wrote "probably notable enough". She is listed among the creators in most of the articles about these games on sv-wiki (list). The second part of that criteria is also covered since there is a book about all the creators of those games, including Qvarnström. The link to Expressen provided by the IP editor above is an article about that book. <em style="font-family:Verdana;color:DarkBlue">cart <em style="font-family:Verdana;color:DarkBlue">-Talk  18:23, 6 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Which can be supported by e.g. Bland mutanter, drakar och demoner by Orvar Säfström and Jimmy Wilhelmsson, which I've cited in the article. Of course there's not going to be much when we search online – this is about someone who's mainly notable because of work done in the 80s, which means that most of the online hits will be passing mentions, listings, blog posts and message board posts. These aren't what we should base the article on. But there are printed sources too. /Julle (talk) 18:39, 6 October 2019 (UTC)
 * I do not think that creating a handful of map illustrations for a tabletop role playing game in any way qualifies as "co-creating" the game, just as a regular illustrator hired to do an illustration or two for the same game couldn't be called a co-creator of the role-playing game. (nominator) 163.49.211.209 (talk) 03:41, 8 October 2019 (UTC)
 * I think the point here is that she didn't create a handful of illustrations for a role-playing game, but was – if I understand Bland mutanter, drakar och demoner correctly – a recurrent face among the creators that dominated the Swedish role-playing scene, and thus played her part of defining it in Sweden during the 80s – the golden age of role-playing games in Sweden – and early 90s. /Julle (talk) 01:36, 9 October 2019 (UTC)


 * Question: 163.49.211.209 are you the same person as 110.165.186.42 and 2001:240:2403:E03E:F418:CEDE:B75D:3119? All three of these IP addresses seem to geolocate to the same origin. This is one of the challenges with non-registered users, it is very difficult to assess how many different voices are contributing to the discussion, and who to respond to. Netherzone (talk) 00:10, 9 October 2019 (UTC)
 * All IPs have explicitly identified as the nominator. /Julle (talk) 01:13, 9 October 2019 (UTC)


 * Keep and improve the article. There seems to be enough evidence that the subject of this BLP made major contributions in the seminal period of the 1980's Swedish role-playing scene as per u|Julle. Netherzone (talk) 13:48, 9 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep per the above arguments. BOZ (talk) 14:14, 9 October 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.