Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Anthony Kilhoffer


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Randykitty (talk) 15:14, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

Anthony Kilhoffer

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

PROD was rejected, just gonna put what I wrote for that here:""WP:DIRECTORY. Appears to only reach for notability for his Grammys (though he is among a long list of collaborators on all four of those projects) but the article severely lacks in prose and the subject severely lacks for SIGCOV (I saw interviews, including the Pitchfork one already here, but nothing else).""

User:Bri, who contested the PROD, says the Grammys should be worth a pass based on WP:NCREATIVE #4 ("has created or played a major role in co-creating a significant or well-known work or collective body of work."), but as I said I wouldn't consider it a major role because he is "among a long list of collaborators on all four of those projects". QuietHere (talk) 01:34, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and United States of America. QuietHere (talk) 01:34, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep: Rap albums have a lot of production credits. There is no threshold of number of Grammy winners when we start to ignore them. It's not up to me to decide "too many" and start deleting biographies of Grammy winners. ☆ Bri (talk) 02:27, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I would be more willing to go along with this if it weren't the only qualification this person has. Lemme put it this way: All three of the Kanye albums Kilhoffer has won Grammys for also include credits for Mike Dean. Looking at his article, I wouldn't begin to question his notability. He's worked on numerous major releases over the years in various capacities and has received independent coverage for his work for several major publications. The same can be said for several other artists involved in those projects, but it can't be said for Anthony Kilhoffer. Unless there's coverage that I didn't see in which case I'd ask you to link that here and prove me wrong, but until then this falls directly under WP:DIRECTORY. For a page that is just a discography and a list of awards, users should go to his AllMusic page instead. QuietHere (talk) 03:20, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
 * There are two main items in this discussion that require address.
 * 1. There is a potential bias/unfamiliarity issue that I’m seeing pop up in numerous conversations regarding notability of collaborators on hip hop projects. The nature of hip hop production is different from pop or rock genre writing that naturally includes a broader scope of collaboration. It does not dilute the contributions or significance of writer & producer contribution to hip hop songs or albums merely because there are more people on these albums than other genres. It toes a very dangerous line to assume that there is a difference in significance of contribution merely because it is a different genre of music (and in this case, a genre predominantly composed of black american artists carrying forward a unique cultural tradition).
 * 2. Anthon Kilhoffer is a significant contributor to the projects he’s worked on. There has been significant additional press on him (including interviews) in the years since this article was created. I will update the page, and no - it should not be deleted. Mistamystery (talk) 18:30, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Are you saying the article should be kept, then? Sorry to be pedantic but it has to be clear to the closer of this debate. ☆ Bri (talk) 20:12, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep notability is possibly seen through his rap albums and music achievements. I would not claim the subject is clearly not notable, so I lean towards keep. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mozzcircuit (talk • contribs) 11:43, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 07:52, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep That he was part of not just one, but four Grammy-winning albums suggests notability to me, even if he was part of a large-ish group. Joyous! | Talk 02:53, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * For whatever it's worth, I still believe this article to be a blatant WP:DIRECTORY fail, and none of the responses have been about that. I stand by all the points I made above, both in my opening and in response to Bri, and have not seen a proper dispute of them. I'm surprised this got a relist, though perhaps Liz sees the same lack of proper counterarguments that I do. QuietHere (talk) 21:06, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Left a notice regarding this AfD at WikiProject Musicians. I suspect this is heading toward a no consensus close at the moment and I'd be more annoyed by that than a keep I disagree with, so hopefully more folks see this through that and we actually get somewhere worth all our time. QuietHere (talk) 21:11, 16 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Keep Per Bri and WP:NCREATIVE. JSFarman (talk) 19:37, 20 February 2023 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.