Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Anti-Hellenism (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Cirt (talk) 13:13, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Anti-Hellenism
AfDs for this article: 
 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

A different article at this location was deleted in 2007 after Articles for deletion/Anti-Hellenism. The problem that goes for the new one just like the old one is: The term "anti-hellenism" is used in so many different ways that any article about it will either remain a pure dicdef (anti-Hellenism means being against something Greek), or weave together an OR story out of unrelated elements. There are simply too many ways how and why and in what sense someone might have been "against something Greek" (political, cultural, modern, ancient, different political contexts, et cetera.) The present sub-stub article has chosen a radically non-committal approach: somebody has evidently been Googling more or less blindly for any and all uses of the term, and simply listed whatever they found, with a single brief sentence about each attestation. There is no indication these attestations are in any way representative, no discussion about how they are related, nothing about how notable each of them is. While "reliably sourced", this is nevertheless maximally useless. – A Prod endorsed by two editors was removed, by someone who apparently wishes to to turn the page again into one of those dreaded nationalist-masochistic "Anti-X'ism" articles, which list any and all perceived acts of hostility against a certain ethnic group, wallowing in the national feeling of injustice and victimization from those oh so hostile neighbours. This is of course the last thing we ought to allow, so before this happens I'm bringing it here. Fut.Perf. ☼ 07:21, 3 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Delete. What do the Hasmonean dynasty and Oscar Wilde have in common? perhaps only this article. Any attempt to knit such diverse temporal and geographical elements into a coherent article would inevitably fall afoul of WP:SYN. Aramgar (talk) 14:12, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Disambiguate. No doubt, an article can be made about anti-Greek persecutions, sentiments and stereotypes.  There probably is one already; I have not yet searched diligently: some material seems to be at Greek diaspora.  The other type of anti-Hellenism would be probably best subsumed under the general rubric of anti-Classicism, hostility to the legacy of Greek and Roman literature, art, and culture.  We there have a minimal stub, currently, that cites one of the same sources cited here: more could be added on that topic also.  The two subjects seem fairly distinct in my mind, and this title is ambiguous in current English. - Smerdis of Tlön (talk) 16:35, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * An article on political anti-Greek tendencies was what was there before and got deleted in 2007. See the previous AfD about why I think having those articles is an exceedingly bad idea. Fut.Perf. ☼ 17:31, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I understand where you are coming from. On the other hand, there are many, many such articles already, some much better than others.  I could easily live with a redirection to anti-Classicism, at least until such time as someone wants to try their hand at writing a reasonable article about anti-Greek prejudice.  - Smerdis of Tlön (talk) 18:50, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Except that Anti-Classicism will have to be written first. Currently it's a sub-stub with even less usable content than this one, hacked together from a single random undigested factbite. It contains not even a dictionary definition. (I guess I needen't comment on the WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS of the first part of your argument.) Fut.Perf. ☼ 14:08, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Probably - though there surely is enough material out there to write an article on the rejection of classical culture; the fact that the current article is not very good does not de-legitimize the topic itself. I guess what I am saying is that, if this article is deleted, it should be without prejudice if someone wants to try their hand at recreating it. - Smerdis of Tlön (talk) 19:37, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

From the supposed "dark side of Classicism-Hellenism" -where some site misquotes a book that misquotes Oscar Wilde about some supposed "intellectual paradox" when it really is some reactionary "cool" "anti-conformism" against Philhellenism, to that of anti-Hellenism as in "against the Hellenic nation". 2. It is undeniable that Greeks, like many nations, have been through wars and massacres but still in all these wars we can't find something distinctively anti-Greek apart from nations trying to dominate over each other. 3. Fut.Perf. is right to be worried that it may turn into a big national story of "unjustified persecution" etc etc because of what he has seen in other anti-[nation here] articles. Btw, some anti-nation articles are in fact good with many truths and explanations but i don't think anti-Hellenism could ever be something more than a stub or a retarded story-telling OR.. though because i trust the dignity of Greeks i think it would stay as the dumb stub we see now forever. 4. i am a Greek as the creator of the article is. and i too have rolled my eyes in all those articles who, as Fut. said, "wallow in the national feeling of injustice and victimization" etc.. and i certainly don't want to see my nation's name amongst them.. 5. There is no bibliography about this anyway. the article has been deleted again and created again and stayed there for some time and still it did not seem to become even a half-decent stub. KILL IT. --CuteHappyBrute (talk) 14:55, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete. First of all this article was made by a Greek, who, with good intentions, apparently wanted to present everything that could fall into the supposed anti-Hellenic category:


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.