Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Antoine Dodson (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. The consensus would appear to be that Dodson meets MUSICBIO#2 as a chart-hitting individual (as the officially credited artist) --  Phantom Steve / talk &#124; contribs \ 21:29, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Antoine Dodson
AfDs for this article: 
 * – ( View AfD View log  •  )

An article about this subject was recently deleted through AfD and subsequently replaced with a redirect to a song. Now a couple of editors claim that they have created a new article, and that this fact invalidates the previous AfD. Since the premise for the original deletion doesn't seem to have changed, I renominate. Favonian (talk) 19:43, 24 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Strong keep The guy is obviously notable, being covered by national news sources. And the stories are not merely about the original news event which catapulted him to fame. The stories are about HIM. Rapidosity (talk) 19:47, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment I'd like to forewarn people about bringing up BLP1E. That's only talking about if someone is covered by the news for one event AND is not notable. The main page for BLP1E, "People notable only for one event," says: "When an individual is significant for their role in a single event, it may be unclear whether an article should be written about the individual, the event or both. In considering whether or not to create separate articles, the degree of significance of the event itself and the degree of significance of the individual's role within it should be considered. The general rule in many cases is to cover the event, not the person. However, as both the event and the individual's role grow larger, separate articles become justified." Notability (people) It's not even a question of the whether the event, the attack of his sister, should have an article. The event wasn't notable at all. So there has to be an article has to be about him. Rapidosity (talk) 19:58, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
 * In this case, the central article, to which this person is peripheral, is Bed Intruder Song. This is, simply, historical background to the song, and its presentation as if it were a biography of a person's life and works is a gross mispresentation of that person.  The important point underlying BLP1E, that you are ignoring, is a fundamental principle stated when that policy element was first developed: Not everything in Wikipedia requires presentation in the form of a biography.  You should ask yourself why you are so intent to present the history of a song in the form of a biography, and why you think that creating articles to "name check" people like this is a good approach to writing.  Uncle G (talk) 17:49, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep content: I don't care where it goes.  The last AFD was 2-1 to keep in terms of !votes I believe, at least.  But there's no need to fight a redirect war.--Milowent • talkblp-r  20:06, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep: Dodson is a chart-topping recording artist and Internet celebrity. WP:BLP1E does not apply due to Mr. Dodson's notability as a musician, even if he is a "one-hit wonder." Uncle Dick (talk) 21:30, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Addendum: Bed Intruder Song debuted at #89 on the Billboard Hot 100 chart, establishing Mr. Dodson's notability per WP:MUSICBIO criteria 2. Uncle Dick (talk) 18:56, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep per Rapidosity. Mario777Zelda (talk) 22:58, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep. Significant coverage from multiple independent reliable sources. --Lambiam 23:14, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Internet-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 23:47, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 23:48, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep per Rapidosity and Uncle Dick. &mdash;Bill Price (nyb) 05:34, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete - This is absolute trivial rubbish. It was deleted at the last AFD, this should have been speedied. Off2riorob (talk) 18:25, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep, no different to any other internet meme, and we have plenty of those here already. Parrot of Doom 12:16, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Of course it's different. The meme would be Interview with Antoine Dodson or some such.  This, in contrast, isn't an article about a meme.  It's an article about a person, a biography.  And it's one where there's nothing other than 1 documented event in that person's life and works to fill the biography.  Where's the rest of this person? Uncle G (talk) 17:49, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I note in passing that there's very little different, in terms of the information presented, between the current version of this article, as I write this, and the 2010-08-10 19:25:17 deleted version by Rapidosity that was covered by the last AFD discussion. Uncle G (talk) 17:49, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Strong Delete This is nonsense. He got his 15 minutes of fame because some Internet moron decided to play around with his interview. I commend Dodson for protecting his sister from attack and don't like the racist comments the video has, but this guy is not notable enough for a Wikipedia article. Delete, delete, delete. 209.2.60.88 (talk) 17:52, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete I have to agree with the people who say this should be deleted. In a month or two, he'll lose his 15 minutes of fame. While we are at it, let's delete the so-called "song" called "Bed Intruder Song." It's not a real song. It's just a couple of clowns changing an interview into something crazy. B-Machine (talk) 17:54, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Regardless of your opinion on the musical quality of the Bed Intruder Song, it is charting hit, debuting at #89 on the Billboard Hot 100. This makes it (and Mr. Dodson) notable per WP:MUSIC. Uncle Dick (talk) 18:56, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
 * To me the song seems keepable but less so for Antoine Dodson; I think it's difficult to treat Dodson like a professional, charting musician; is it fairer to say that he's been sampled in a charting release? If that's the case, then the argument for keeping Dodson's article is considerably weaker. TheGrappler (talk) 23:30, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Antoine Dodson is the officially credited artist for Bed Intruder Song even if the single was originally produced and released without his direct cooperation or knowledge. He's certainly not a "professional" musician in any sense of the word (yet), but that doesn't have any bearing on his notability under WP:MUSICBIO. Uncle Dick (talk) 16:06, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Interesting, I wonder whether WP:MUSICBIO is up to speed with the likes of Auto-Tune the News? On that basis even if there was somebody who is genuinely "unknown" (with less media exposition and hence sources than has happened with Mr. Dodson), they may become notable if they are sampled and autotuned into a single that charts? It doesn't sound like an intended consequence! TheGrappler (talk) 02:18, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Strong keep. because enough people care to voice any opinion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.26.7.86 (talk) 16:02, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete for now, no harm in subsequent recreation if his fame persists - two strong arguments and two weaker ones lead me to suspect this is a 1E case. [Incidentally the "event" as far as I'm concerned isn't the attack on his sister - horrendous though that is, it couldn't give him notability, merely set off a chain of events leading to the event: his "discovery" by the media and his consequent "viral" status. The "article on the event" is the article about the record. I can see not everybody here is defining the "1E" the same way.] (1) I can't see what should be covered at this article that should not be covered in the articles that concern the event (i.e. the record release). (2) The "Ten Year Test" - in ten years, is anybody going to have updated this article using valid sources? An article that concerns the event remains eternally true and doesn't date. But a biography will look frozen and dated - it will simply stop at 2010, with the subject of the biography vanishing into oblivion - unless this guy is so seared onto the public consciousness, that there will be ongoing coverage in the years ahead that keeps this article maintainable. Erica Roe is an instance of an individual only notable for a single event, but who has received ongoing long-term coverage that prevents the biography simply being about the event itself. If this guy gets either continual coverage related to his time as an web personality, or becomes notable in some other way (e.g. book or TV deal) so that 1E ceases to be applicable, then an article seems appropriate, but I currently can't see any evidence for either of these things being likely. Most "1E" people simply vanish into the ether after their five minutes of fame. (Weak 3) So far I can only see one clearly notable WP article that this guy is related to, so this page name can safely be redirected there. Were there multiple articles here about him, we'd need some form of entry at this title, and a short biography would be preferable to a plain disambiguation page. (Weak 4) It's stretching things somewhat to deem this guy a professional, charting musician; it may be more realistic to reckon that he has been sampled in a charting musical work, which I'm less convinced renders him notable. [The song is probably keepable in my opinion but that's a whole other debate.) TheGrappler (talk) 23:30, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep He is fairly famous, and I've seen people who are a lot less famous have articles on this site. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.35.232.96 (talk) 19:46, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep per Rapidosity and User:Uncle Dick. WereWolf (talk) 21:19, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Strong keep Even if Antoine Dodson's 15 minutes of fame evaporate (which I sincerely hope does not happen, since many more people have become more famous for doing things that are entirely unscrupulous and this young man is quite NOBLE), the record of Dodson's bravery and his position on sexual violence against women is an important part of the history of summer 2010 in America. Antoine Dodson absolutely must be remembered, and people should be able to be educated about him and the importance of his actions AND statement to the cameras. Some may trivialize his actions, some may make racist comments, but there are many who are truly inspired by Dodson and see him as a folk hero. We must remember that this entire thing started because Dodson had the courage to confront his sister's attacker, something that is NOT unremarkable. I disagree that his biography will look "frozen and dated" - that is simply not true, as Antoine Dodson seems to be poised to become a fixture in both the celebrity activist and gay communities. Perhaps he will finance his successes in other ways, he may further his cosmetology career. Who knows? Let's keep this article! Let's wait and see! Even if Antoine Dodson's Bed Intruder Song does not continue to chart, the fact that it has charted and it features him as an artist (AND a political activist) he must be kept on Wikipedia if only to educate the world about the person behind the song and the reasons for his notoriety. Finally, Antoine Dodson's life is not "trivial rubbish" and the person who made that comment need only look at the endless Wikipedia articles detailing the lives of various "it girls" and people who are "famous for being famous" to see what "trivial rubbish" really looks like. Antoine is to be commended for his actions and everyone should have the chance to be educated about the man behind the phenomena, if they so choose. To say Antoine Dodson does not have a place on Wikipedia is dreadful, and perhaps even exemplary. Is this the type of "inclusive" free online encyclopedia we want to be? mikoism 22:53, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete. Obviously non-notable, or at absolute best notable for only one event, which on Wikipedia is the same thing.  Exploding Boy (talk) 03:33, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Notable for one event is still notable. There is no policy that says if someone is notable for only one event that they shouldn't have an article. Notable is notable. Rapidosity (talk) 19:02, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Apparently you didn't read the link I provided. Exploding Boy (talk) 00:11, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
 * - A note to the closing Administrator to be aware of the new account or single purpose accounts that are vote commenting keep. Off2riorob (talk) 16:05, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Update on media attention. Dodson was interviewed by NBC and that aired on the Today Show on television this morning. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EPHOKm6qbk And note the thrust of the story is about HIM, not the song. You deleters need to stop denying the obvious. The guy is notable. Rapidosity (talk) 18:52, 27 August 2010 (UTC)


 * KeepI think this should definitely stay up. I want to know if they catch the jerk that tried to hurt her. And people aren't making fun of him, they're saluting him. This guy is a hero, he rescued his sister from that jerk that tried to hurt her. No harm in paying homage to someone who's commited to the protection and welfare of his family Belflaurn —Preceding undated comment added 21:50, 27 August 2010 (UTC).
 * Weak Keep. WP:BLP1E appears trumped because of WP:MUSICBIO and the duration and type of coverage Dodson has been granted in reliable sources. WP:MUSICBIO qualifies Dodson for possible notability. I just added a source to the article discussing the song: While Dodson is certainly not a traditional musician, his name is listed as an artist along with The Gregory Brothers. The song was recently a topic on the August 27th Today Show, as mentioned at Billboard.com. While Kennicott rips the artistic merit of the song, it is still referred to as a song. And Dodson is one of the artists whether or not we find his performance "artistic". (Arguments above seem to discount these facts.) WP:BLP1E states, "If reliable sources cover the person only in the context of a single event, and if that person otherwise remains, or is likely to remain, a low-profile individual, we should generally avoid having an article on them." But interviews of Dodson have provided details on his personal life, such as his family, education, and personal history. And The Today Show called the YouTube video "one of the most online videos, ever". (The word is emphasized in the show, in my opinion.) Having one of the most popular online videos leads one to believe Dodson might not likely remain a low-profile individual. Shootbamboo (talk) 18:20, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep. By themselves, preventing a crime, giving an interview about the event, or somebody editing the interview into a song aren't enough to make somebody notable.  But because of the subsequent reaction he has now prevented a famous crime that has received significant media attention, and is further credited for his contribution toward a successful song.  And like shootbamboo argued, it may be unusual for somebody to unintentionally become a lead vocalist in a single, but it happened. I don't believe there is a rule that makes him automatically less notable than those who contribute toward a song under more "conventional" circumstances.  -Homeless prophet (talk) 19:18, 28 August 2010 (UTC)


 * KEEP - AD is one of the most famous people on the internet, internet celebrities are REAL celebrities, this page probably gets hundreds of thousands of hits —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.76.177.124 (talk) 23:01, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Bed Intruder Song. The coverage on the individual is trivial and related only to the viral video. The internet meme is focused strictly on that video.  bahamut0013  words deeds 23:10, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep. He has brought attention to a couple of issues that affect all areas of societies in his interviews and doesn't seem to be going anywhere. What is the harm. *There are way more useless articles on here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.23.102.243 (talk) 00:44, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment - Does WP:MUSICBIO criteria 2 apply here? I'm not entirely certain given the inadvertent nature of his artistic contribution.  If it applies, then "Keep."  If not," Delete" and redirect to Bed Intruder Song.  --John Stephen Dwyer (talk) 01:51, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep: it seems that his 15 minutes of fame quite long, as the number of remixes growing; I don't mind a merge with Bed Interuder song article, but then this whole article should go there, not just a summary. --Zslevi (talk) 15:49, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep: Significant meme coverage across a number of reliable sources combined with WP:MUSICBIO. Qrsdogg (talk) 18:01, 29 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Keep - Famous for a news event, and a song, for more than a month now he's still hasn't been forgotten. He's famous for 2 things, not just 1. He's notable for more than one thing. Clerkenwell ''TALK PAGE!" Contribs 02:04, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Conditional keep. The news event and the song are the same thing, they're both linked with each other. The concept of BLP requiring more than one thing as a claim to fame is looking for distinct, clearly separate demonstrations of notability. Anyway, the condition of my keep "vote" is that it be moved from Antoine Dodson to the meme. Famous meme, not famous person. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 11:04, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Strong delete. Trivial, gossipy, recent and irrelevant. A one off, a spark, a flash in the pan. Not academic. ValenShephard (talk) 20:20, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep - Please stop being such fuddy-duddies. Like it or not, this is how celebrity culture works now, and beyond that, AD is a Billboard Hot 100 recording artist now.  The controversy and media attention he's garnered--controversy which is clearly on display here--show that he's relevant.  That's precisely what the controversy is about--whether or not he's "actually" noteworthy. I can imagine Wikipedia in 1917 wanting to delete the article for Duchamp's "Fountain"--"it's not art, who will remember this juvenile stunt" etc., etc.  In addition, I summon the "A Time to Kill" defense:  "Imagine a young man. His home is invaded by a rapist. His sister screams; he goes to her defense. The man escapes. The local news interviews him; the man is outraged. The video of his comments is viewed millions of times.  Days later, a group of internet comedians remix his passionate words into a song. This song goes on iTunes; it charts higher than Lady GaGa.  The man is listed as the co-author of the song and gets half the proceeds.  The song cracks the Billboard Hot 100 Singles Chart.  The man receives a ton of media coverage, and is interviewed on the Today Show. Wikipedia wants to delete his entry.  Now imagine he's white. "  I'm not saying y'all are racist, I'm just saying, y'all sure as shootin' might be racist in assuming he's going to continue to be a non-entity 'cause he's a poor black dude.  This will get referenced on Family Guy or dude will publish a book or otherwise become noteworthy, and it'll all be gravy.  Besides which, the dude's interview *and* the song are famous; it'd be like if Bubb Rubb had a single that blew up. And frankly, isn't Rodney King only famous for 1E (one event)?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.76.74.28 (talk) 21:18, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
 * If Antoine Dodson inspires the Hunstville riots of 2010, then I will consider him notable as a person. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 06:31, 31 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Keep - He's a notable person, and though the article is obviously primarily about the interview he initially gave, there is sufficient information about him within the article and through various sources. londonsista  Prod  10:56, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Strong keep. This is just one of those times when common sense is the first indicator of notability. He may be a minor celebrity, but he's received much more notoriety than your average YouTuber.  All of the arguments for keep above are likewise compelling.  You certainly cannot have a song with an article without having its contributors have their own articles.  The Autotune guys and other one-hit wonders have articles on here; why not Dobson? - CobaltBlueTony™ talk  15:28, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment: Respectfully disagree with the characterization that The Gregory Brothers are "one-hit wonders". They've received sustained and consistent media attention since Spring 2009, and several of their YouTube videos have individually received over 5 million views, despite often being mirrored across multiple locations. They've been featured on several television programs and are in talks to create a pilot for their own program. I don't think that their notability is being questioned in the slightest. &mdash;Bill Price (nyb) 17:47, 31 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Keep - He has been interviewed on NPR and major news networks, he is also starting his own hair styling business based off this fame. He is definitely notable in the fact that he will be forever remembered.  Even the "keep britney" guy wasn't interviewed on major networks.  Although he may be a "youtube" sensation, he is gaining popularity in other aspects regarding him, and not the news story in which he is known for.  This is a keep. Also notable is the fact that, and I quote from public sources, "The money, as well as money from sales of "Bed Intruder" on iTunes and merchandise such as T-shirts, will go to helping his family buy a new home and setting up a foundation for juvenile diabetes, a disease that has afflicted both his sister and his mother."  He is starting a foundation.  How is THAT NOT notable?JJGeneral1 (talk) 19:22, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.