Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Apostolic Catholic Church


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. Stifle (talk) 08:58, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Apostolic Catholic Church

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This article is an advertisement for what claims to be a pseudo-Catholic denomination. (There are a lot of Independent Catholic Churches that use the name "Catholic" but are not affiliated with the Roman Catholic Church.)

I can find no independent substantiation for the existence of this church. On their website at http://acc-ingkong.com/content/view/70/44/, they give 170 North White Road, San Jose, CA 95127 as the address for "Our Lady of Hope Parish/House of Hope". I looked up and down that street on Google street view and found nothing but houses. Trulia says that this address has a 3-bedroom, 2-bathroom house built in 1947.

There are plenty of hits for "Apostolic Catholic Church", including some g-news hits, but none of them are for this "Apostolic Catholic Church" - it's a common enough of a name and there are plenty of unrelated organizations with that name. B (talk) 19:45, 4 August 2009 (UTC)


 * weak Delete My main problem with this article is the nearly complete lack of independent verfiable sources. And indeed the name is common enough to defy plain vanilla Google searches. Only one independent article is given and that only mentions the church in one paragraph. In short, the article does not establish notability per WP:ORG, and neither do the given sources.Wefa (talk) 22:07, 4 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Weak Keep. It's possible to find some modestly reliable information on this sect/cult/whatever by Googling its patriarch's name in various forms, including the fact that the patriarch's brother was murdered after he set up his own splinter sect due to a family feud.  I don't know that there's enough online out there to write more than a stub, though. Certainly the existing text needs to be pretty much expunged. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 03:22, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Weak keep or merge to Independent Catholic Churches per above. Not much out there to add. Bearian (talk) 15:49, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep with considerable cutting.  We do not judge which denominations are "pseudo-" DGG (talk) 03:33, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Of course we don't. We have plenty of articles on Independent Catholic Churches, but you're missing the point.  The point is that one of the TWO church buildings this organization claims to have definitively DOES NOT EXIST, or at best is a house church.  The only independent articles that even mention this thing are a piece that I guess is from inquirer.net, a Filipino online newspaper, and two random local news articles where the head of this church showed up at a rally of some kind wearing his clerical outfit and was interviewed.  There's no actual evidence of notability and there is barely evidence of existence. --B (talk) 21:37, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

The author seems to be a member, but does not say so. This is just spamming. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.137.170.8 (talk) 09:43, 6 August 2009 (UTC) Toshikazu2009 and 119.95.237.90 seem to be the same person. He does not mention unpleasant matter, like the murder of the brother, mentioned above. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.137.170.8 (talk) 10:05, 6 August 2009 (UTC)  Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, \ Backslash Forwardslash / {talk} 06:43, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.


 * Weak keep. It appears to exist (e.g. ). The church in California could well be a house church. They are pretty common, and I know of a few Orthodox Churches that meet in houses. Quantpole (talk) 12:01, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete We absolutely have not taken mere existence as sufficient grounds to have an article about a church, and we have deleted countless articles about much larger and better known churches. Calling a congregation a denomination and the house where it meets a cathedral does not make it inherently notable. Fails notability. See WP:CONG for the views of some editors on what would make a religious congregation, or religious building notable. Calling the building a "cathedral" or having an impressive name in no way makes the denomination or congregation notable. References to its own website or publications cannot establish notability. Edison (talk) 16:20, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Christianity-related deletion discussions.  -- Cyber cobra  (talk) 19:47, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Religion-related deletion discussions.  -- Cyber cobra  (talk) 19:47, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Weak keep or merge to Independent Catholic Churches. I have no idea how large a group this is, but if it is merely a small splinter group, it does not serve its own article.  On the other hand, it should not be deleted out of hand.  Peterkingiron (talk) 12:01, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.