Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Aqua-Aston Hospitality


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. (non-admin closure) Clarkcj12 (talk) 04:43, 8 December 2021 (UTC)

Aqua-Aston Hospitality

 * – ( View AfD View log )

non-notable arm of a notable parent company, there is no meaningful or in depth coverage of AAH, only it's parent and should be redirect, but was contested by a legacy admin. PRAXIDICAE🌈 19:15, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Companies-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 19:22, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Hawaii-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 19:22, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete — I’m in total agreement with the actions of predating this AFD. If WP:SIGCOV isn’t met, then an arm in itself is not considered notable for a standalone. Celestina007 (talk) 19:58, 9 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep Poorly-referenced article, but not un-notable. WP:BEFORE in Google news section yields some useful sources:


 * Aqua-Aston celebrates 70 years in Hawaii - Travel Weekly, 4 January 2019
 * Aqua-Aston Hospitality completes $6.7M sustainability update to Maui hotel - Hotel Management, 9 November 2017
 * Hawaii-based hotel companies rebrand as Aqua-Aston Hospitality - The Business Journals, 17 August 2017
 * Aqua-Aston Hospitality launches new operations protocols - Hotel Managment, 9 July 2017
 * Aqua-Aston unveils Residences at Waikiki Beach Tower - Travel Weekly, 24 March 2018


 * I didn't go any deeper but I believe there's more than just these five. Waddles 🗩 🖉 21:02, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment — I don’t get, the first you linked doesn’t meet SIGCOV, the second reads like an announcement. If SIGCOV isn’t met than arm isn’t eligible for a standalone. Celestina007 (talk) 16:47, 10 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep I guess I am the "legacy admin", whatever that is supposed to imply. The company in question has existed since 1948, yet has only been owned by Marriot for the last three years. They were part of ResortQuest for much longer than that. How Marriot is a valid redir target to that parent beggers the imagination. In any event, the company is known as a "significant regional operator" and gains recent notice for their ecological efforts. They are constantly in the news in the Star-Advertizer, although paywalled. Coverage is not always positive! Maury Markowitz (talk) 21:19, 13 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep taken as a whole (even if some of the provided sources appear to be just public announcements of corporate actions), there appears to be enough significant independent coverage to meet WP:NCORP. Qwaiiplayer (talk) 13:42, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment -, , , , , , , , , , , , and on I could go.  78.26  (spin me / revolutions) 15:28, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Please - could you point to something that doesn't rely on a company announcements? Here are the headlines for those articles for those editors that cannot access them. For any that can, clearly the references fail NCORP:
 * "Aqua Hotels to offer stock ownership plan to workers", "Aqua Hotels offers new amenities", "Coconut Plaza is closing for renovation", "Aqua Hotels selects new CEO", "Aqua Hotels to manage Hotel Lana'i", "Aqua Hotels owners institute ESOP", "Aqua Hotels to run Hilton Kanua'i resort", "Aqua Hotels' 'No Commitments' program eases wedding planning".  HighKing++ 11:59, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Daniel (talk) 00:42, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep Article is in a poor state, but the recently found sources seem to establish notability. MrsSnoozyTurtle 06:12, 19 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete It is all routine coverage, paid for PR like this: Aqua-Aston celebrates 70 years in Hawaii The fact there is coverage is coverage it was a local employee and paid to advertise.   scope_creep Talk  23:25, 19 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep The company appears to be notable, given the availability of sources on the topic both positive and negative [1][2]. As Maury Markowitz has mentioned, coverage is not always positive. [3][4][5][6][7]. Mugimeshi (talk) 07:26, 21 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep I worked for this company around 2014, and I'm sure they are notable. They are known as a hotel management brand throughout the state of Hawaii, and they have some reach in other areas as well. I am not surprised by the "Labor Disputes" though, it was not a great place to work. Long hours, stressed employees, high turnover, bad management. So this section is good to have. When I worked there, there was no union. Many people quit within 1 year. If they are still as busy as they were they won't have the time to focus on Wikipedia, but the article could occasionally be vandalized or deleted by former employees who are still burnt. Spektred (talk) 05:41, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete Lots of talk by the Keep !votes above about "coverage" and "availability of sources" and whether the sources contain negative news. There's a simple method to check notabiliy for companies Since it is a company, the topic must meet WP:NCORP criteria. NCORP requires multiple sources (at least two) of deep or significant coverage with in-depth information *on the company* and (this bit is important!) containing "Independent Content". "Independent content", in order to count towards establishing notability, must include original and independent opinion, analysis, investigation, and fact checking that are clearly attributable to a source unaffiliated to the subject. That means, nothing that relies on company information or announcements or interviews, etc.
 * As far as I can see, none of the references in the article meet the criteria. There are *all* based on either announcements by the company, or mentions-in-passing with no in-depth coverage about the company. I am unable to find any references that meet NCORP criteria. If somebody wants a detailed breakdown of any particular reference and why it fails NCORP, link it underneath here but otherwise, topic fails WP:NCORP.  HighKing++ 11:52, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment Here are a few more sources to satisfy the notability criteria. None of these were mentioned earlier. American City Business Journals in particular is an outlet known for regional independent news coverage., , , , , ,
 * Keep in mind that they rebranded a few times. As the article eludes to, first it was "Aqua Hotels & Resorts", then "Aqua Hospitality", then "Aqua-Aston Hospitality" after the merge with Aston Hotels. But it's all the same business. This could be the reason why finding sources might seem a little scarce. I know about the rebrands because I had a direct connection to this company at one time, but there are sources online that confirm all this as well. Spektred (talk) 18:52, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment Nonsense, just another bunch of regurgitated press releases and company announcements. Am I missing something? Can you explain how exactly those sources "satisfy the notability criteria"??? Where is the in-depth information on the company to include analysis/opinion/etc by a person unaffiliated with the topic company???
 * This from khon2.com is based entirely on a TV interview from the same khon2 company which you can view here. A similar interview and article appear on theHawaii News Now website. This is not "Independent Content" and fails WP:ORGIND
 * Your 2nd and 3rd links point to the same article. This Pacific Business News article very clearly says "Theresa van Greunen, Aqua Aston’s director of public relations and promotions, told Pacific Business News" and contains no "Independent Content", also fails WP:ORGIND.
 * The Hinowdaily reference says in big bold letters "Sponsored by Aqua-Aston Hospitality", difficult to miss. Fails as a Primary source, fails WP:ORGIND.
 * This next one from Pacific Business News is entirely based on a company announcement. Similar article (some with the exact same sentences and quotes) can be found at travelpulse.com and travelweekly.com. Fails WP:ORGIND.
 * The two articles on Ben Rafter taking on a bigger role in the group in April 2014 and then stepping down in December 2014 are entirely and complete based on company announcements. A simple search brings up numerous other articles with the same date and using the exact same quotes from Rafter, fails WP:ORGIND
 * Clearly the company exists, clearly it has a well-oiled marketing department, clearly it is mentioned in lots of articles, but this does not automatically translate into notability.  HighKing</b>++ 15:18, 4 December 2021 (UTC)

<p class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   10:52, 29 November 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.