Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Arab Winter


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. For a while, I was wondering if no consensus to delete made more sense here, since there are some reasonable arguments to merge this into arab spring. But, then I looked at Talk:Arab_Winter. That ongoing discussion clearly rules out any idea of a merge. Taking that sentiment into account here, a clear keep consensus becomes obvious. -- RoySmith (talk) 01:35, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

Arab Winter

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The term “Arab Winter” has been used in a few sources, as a counter-play on the widely used term “Arab Spring”, but I don’t think the term has risen to the level of notability to warrants its own article. The majority of the current article is just WP:OR, in which some editors have complied a list of countries in a table, to illustrate what they believe is part of an “Arab Winter”, while the sources used do not mention this term at all. Some of the relevant material in the article has already been merged into the Arab Spring article, where I believe it belongs. If this term "sticks" and becomes notably used, the article can easily be recreated at that time. -  Cwobeel   (talk)  05:08, 2 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete as nom. -  Cwobeel   (talk)  05:11, 2 November 2014 (UTC)
 * I wonder if this is forum shopping. Discussions to merge may have been slow, but the consensus to merge is mixed. See Talk:Arab Winter. --George Ho (talk) 05:12, 2 November 2014 (UTC)
 * This is a discussion for deletion, not for merging, as I don't believe that a merge is warranted, given the lack of notability for this term. -  Cwobeel   (talk)  05:14, 2 November 2014 (UTC)
 * In some cases, AFDs result in either redirect or merge. --George Ho (talk) 14:49, 2 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep and rename - The article has potential, but it cannot stay as "Arab Winter" any longer. Rename to Aftermath of Arab Spring and expand further. --George Ho (talk) 05:44, 2 November 2014 (UTC)
 * No one is stopping you from expanding Arab Spring to include narratives and events reported in RS about its aftermath. If when you do that you get to a point in which the material is too expansive, a consideration for splitting can be made at that point, otherwise creating an "aftermath" article will be an aberration and a certain POV fork. -  Cwobeel   (talk)  14:41, 2 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Merge Arab Winter could become a countervailing section in Arab Spring, Arab Spring being the commonly applied politically correct oxymoron --Star Log, Lfrankblam, Kirk Out (talk) 07:11, 2 November 2014 (UTC)
 * What about the effects of Arab Spring? Are they just original research? --George Ho (talk) 08:02, 2 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep - keep as is, the multiple proposals by user:Cwobeel to merge or delete the page (this is the third) may indicate rather WP:IDONTLIKEIT, rather than an actual reason for this proposal. I remind that there was no consensus to merge the article into Arab Spring previously.GreyShark (dibra) 12:06, 2 November 2014 (UTC)
 * This is the first deletion request that I am aware of. -  Cwobeel   (talk)  14:42, 2 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Rename and merge - Out of the 44 sources used in the article, I'm curious how many actually use the term "Arab Winter". My guess is that it's significantly less than half and clearly won't pass the weight test. -- Somedifferentstuff (talk) 15:21, 2 November 2014 (UTC)
 * About 10 sources, the vast majority opinion pieces. -  Cwobeel   (talk)  16:47, 2 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep or merge into Arab_Spring. This is an extremely significant topic on which substantial work has been done, and the only problem with it is a title that can be interpreted as POV - and even that is debatable as the term has been used in numerous sources. Renaming or merging should be straightforward enough. --Sammy1339 (talk) 20:24, 2 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Middle East-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:35, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Politics-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:35, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Social science-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:36, 3 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Strong Keep - The events described in "Arab Winter" are slightly similar to the events in Arab Spring, though not quite the same. Even if the media hasn't quite caught on to this new term, that's no reason to delete the article outright. If we did this to all of the articles we come across, then many of the articles on Wikipedia wouldn't be in existence today. Sure, the article may be poorly sourced or have plenty or OR issues, but those problems can be corrected over time. Besides, more information and coverage on this topic will pop up gradually. The events described do appear to be legitimate, so I think that we should give people time to develop the article and make improvements. LightandDark2000 (talk) 02:22, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Rename or merge - Certain parts of the article have headed toward being a kind of "catch-all" that positions it closer to overlapping with the aftermath of the Arab Spring/concurrent events. For example, the sections describing events in Tunisia, while indeed covering political upheaval and sharp change, do not necessarily fit in with the introduction's characterization of the "Arab Winter."  The attributes of "civil war," "economic and demographic decline," and "ethno-religious sectarian strife" do not encompass the Tunisia transition to a greater level than is typically the case with similar transitions outside the Arab world.  There is also some ambiguity about the degree to which the article posits a strong connection between the Arab Spring's aftermath and events completely unrelated to the Arab Spring in regards to the conflicts and insurgences in Iraq.  The overlap is getting to a sufficient level that it might be worth considering a rename or possibly even a merge.  Viewpoint as a minor editor of the article. Lacertilia the Magnificent (talk) 22:56, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you for a well informed comment. -  Cwobeel   (talk)  23:08, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete As the nominator says, most of the article is OR and the acceptable parts could be described in the main article, namely the Arab Spring. --IRISZOOM (talk) 22:55, 4 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete or merge – I'll repeat what's been said above. this article is largely based on WP:OR. The term "Arab Winter" is not widely used anywhere, and seems to be trying to push a WP:POV. Perhaps some of the content is valuable, but the article is not. Do away with it. RGloucester  — ☎ 04:00, 6 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep -- Term is separate and widely used for acknowledging the crisis of civil war since 2012. Noteswork (talk) 07:03, 6 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep, the term appears to be used in multiple reliable sources both on the internet, by some news sources, in books, and in scholarly articles. One interesting note, the term appears to be used to a lesser extent to the period between the Iraqi Kuwait invasion until the Arab Spring, and to a larger extent to the aftermath of the Arab Spring.--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 18:36, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep The article is pretty detailed and well sourced. If it was notable enough to be merged or included, then I'd say that it can also merit its own article. Supersaiyen312 (talk) 22:45, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep, rename and merge content from Spillover of the Syrian Civil War - The topic of the article is legit, but it should be moved to a more neutral and descriptive title until enough RS commonly refer to this period as a "winter". Fitzcarmalan (talk) 13:56, 9 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep - The issue here at AfD is whether the topic and content of this article is notable (not it's title). This article clearly is notable based on the reliable sources it already has (as of this version). The other issues mentioned above need to be addressed, but not here at AfD. To improve the article, they should be addressed on Talk:Arab_Winter, or by neutral editors making quality improvements (I note that the merge to candidate Arab Spring also has much content in tables (as of this version), that also would be better converted to encyclopedic narrative). — Lentower (talk) 18:26, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep A simple Google search suffices to establish the subject's notability. As for merging, there's a separate discussion regarding a possible merger which was started long before this AfD and the decision as to whether to merge or not should be made there, not here. Iaritmioawp (talk) 16:21, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.