Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Archbishop Wood HS Alumni Gay Hate Crime'''


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   Delete. Materialscientist (talk) 10:26, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

Archbishop Wood HS Alumni Gay Hate Crime'''

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

You shouldn't be naming someone on Wikipedia for their alleged involvement in a crime when they haven't been convicted, as per the policy WP:BLPCRIME ChicXulub (talk) 21:17, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

REBUTAL: This individual was fired by the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Philadelphia due to his involvement. This has been reported in the press. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AA4455121 (talk • contribs)

Delete Where to start with this page? The title is completely not NPOV. The page itself exists purely to disparage an individual accused of a crime, no attempt shown to be NPOV and is written very tabloid news style and wikipedia is not the news. Potentially speedy under G10 as an attack page. Cowlibob (talk) 21:58, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Do NOT Delete / REBUTAL:  ***The page is discussing a current news event. While it may highlight the negative actions of some of those who were active in the event, it should not be deleted because of that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AA4455121 (talk • contribs)


 * Delete The subject of the article itself--the (alleged) physical assault against two gay men in Philadelphia--has not shown the requisite enduring significance or widespread impact to be a notable event. Furthermore, as this story is still developing, there is no evidence this event will have coverage in reliable independent sources beyond the current news cycle.  Additionally, I agree with Cowlibob. This article is a total clustermess.  The title is one of the worse WP:NPOV violations I can remember--serving to associate the high school with a criminal act.-- danntm T C 22:24, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Do NOT Delete If you can think of a better title, please rename it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AA4455121 (talk • contribs)
 * 'Do NOT Delete' / REBUTAL:  Hate crimes committed in 2014 in a major U.S. city are newsworthy.  Period. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AA4455121 (talk • contribs)


 * Delete Numerous errors with the article--Futeb00l (talk) 22:31, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete One of four places the WP:SPA has put this material in an apparent attempt to smear the school (two in userspace, this article, and the article about the school). This is the worst of the four as it identifies one of the supposed perpetrators by name. It's horrific, but we're not a news outlet. We have severe BLP and NPOV issues. If the topic has extensive and long=lasting coverage it can be covered then, but in a more appropriate manner. Meters (talk) 22:45, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Do NOT Delete / REBUTAL: The alleged perpetrator has been named in multiple sources, and was fired by his employer for his participation in the incident. Please read the references attached to the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AA4455121 (talk • contribs)


 * Note that the article has already been speedied once. Meters (talk) 22:51, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Pennsylvania-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:21, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Crime-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:21, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:21, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

Do NOT Delete / REBUTAL:   The article was speeded once either out of error or due to the perpetrators or their friends trying to remove it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AA4455121 (talk • contribs)
 * Delete. Wikipedia is not a newspaper and this is not anymore notable than any other violent attacks that happened in the same week in the United States. It does not conform to WP:LASTING or WP:GEOSCOPE and does not even pretend to be NPOV. Orasis (talk) 05:02, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia's lasting effects guideline says that an event is notable if it "act(s) as a precedent or catalyst for something else" including legislation. Because of this anti-gay assault, a Philadelphia law maker is going to try to make anti-gay assaults a gay crime. Currently, in Pennsylvania, there is no special protection on the basis of someone's sexual orientation or gender identity (only racial minorities are protected). I wrote about this on the article's talk page (which WIkipedia isn't letting me link to because of the weird three apostrophes that are part of the title at the end…) because I don't think I should like to the sources on this page(?). If this article somehow doesn't get deleted, the title of the article needs to be changed.-12.30.109.2 (talk) 07:30, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

Since I can't link to the talk page because of the three apostrophes in the title problem, I'll post what I wrote there:

This crime is notable because it may cause the state of Pennsylvania to enact new legislation that protects people on the basis of their sexual orientation. Currently, there is no hate crime protection for gay people in Pennsylvania, there is only protection for racial minorities ("ethnic intimidation").
 * http://www.philly.com/philly/news/Pa_law_Center_City_assault_on_gay_men_not_a_hate_crime.html
 * http://phillynow.com/2014/09/17/gay-bashing-not-defined-as-hate-crime-in-pennsylvania/
 * http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Why-Gay-Couple-Beating-is-Not-a-Hate-Crime-275631451.html
 * http://www.phillymag.com/news/2014/09/18/gay-bashing-hate-crime-pennsylvania-petition/

See Wikipedia's lasting effects notability guideline. ("Events are often considered to be notable if they act as a precedent or catalyst for something else. This may include effects on the views and behaviors of society and legislation.") If this is an inappropriate place for me to write this, please feel free to delete what I've written. -12.30.109.2 (talk) 07:31, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

Also, if the main problem is NPOV, can someone fix the language so that it is more neutral and therefore doesn't have to be deleted? -12.30.109.2 (talk) 07:32, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
 * On the point of a precedent or catalyst for something else: Sometimes it is notable (Boston Tea Party), but sometimes it's not. Also, a change in Pennsylvania legislation is only a proposal, hasn't gotten any more attention than the incident, and may not even rise to Wikipedia notability even if passed; some states have specific hate crime laws, and some don't. --Closeapple (talk) 09:59, 19 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete per WP:NOTNEWS, WP:NOTSOAP, possibly WP:COATRACK for Hate crime laws in the United States, and possibly WP:BLP, and still touching on WP:CSD (for which it was already speedy-deleted once). Cowlibob has it right in the above response, citing WP:LASTING, WP:GEOSCOPE, and WP:PERSISTENCE.  It only happened a week ago, and doesn't seem to be a national event for the general public, let alone an international encyclopedic topic of historic relevance.  The article's creation, tone, and supporters have made it clear that it this is a textbook case of Righting great wrongs, in which some specific thing tweaks already-riled advocates, who then decide there is no inappropriate forum to get the "big truth" out and anyone who won't give them a free soapbox must be mistaken or working for The Enemy.  But Wikipedia is not a soapbox, not every injustice against gay people is the Stonewall riots, and not every public beating or other obnoxious crime qualifies for a separate Wikipedia article to memorialize it, even if it's nasty: see not only Righting great wrongs but the related concept Wikipedia is not here to tell the world about your noble cause.  There's also a WP:BLP and WP:CSD issue: This article's POV pushing extends to what seems like a premeditated rush to defame one specific person by name as far and irrevocably as possible, in case that individual is cleared or otherwise not destroyed to the advocates' satisfaction later.  If the article is kept, there is no harm in referring to the person by description and relationship with the school, rather than by identifiable name, and then adding the name later if the person is named by police, indicted, or holds a press conference.  But forcing the name onto Wikipedia, the 5th-most-visted site on the web, makes it harder to undo the effect; claiming that less-attended media sites are doing it too is not an excuse, particularly as it is based on leaks by unnamed sources. --Closeapple (talk) 09:59, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Snow / IAR delete per . In particular we are not news, not a soapbox, the alleged crime is not notable, and it names people who have not been convicted. Moreover the POV-pushing, great wrong-righting. Even if a good article could be written the present one is not a suitable basis for it. BethNaught (talk) 10:15, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.