Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Argentish


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete.  Sandstein  17:44, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Argentish

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Original research, collection of Spanish sayings into English as if they were used in that non existent dialect. Mariano (t/c) 08:45, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * added information: there is no info on google on Argentish nor any "Argentine English" dialect. Spanglish is a verifiable dialect in USA, but there's simply not such thing in Argentina. There are people that speek English badly, but a collection of common mistakes doesn't sound Encyclopedic, specially if referred to as Argentish. Mariano (t/c) 09:51, 22 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Language-related deletion discussions.   -- the wub  "?!"  08:56, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 *  Keep Move  Seems suitable for encyclopedic interest, some problems with a lack of sources rather than WP:OR, I would say WP:SOFIXIT seems more appropriate than delete.  Justin talk 09:38, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * comment: I would agree if there existed something such as Argentine English. My point is that it doesn't, and therefore this is not only an original research, but almost a hoax. Spanglish is present in USA, but there's not such thing in Argentina. Mariano (t/c) 09:44, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * OK thanks for explaining, withdrawn my comments. Justin talk 13:12, 22 August 2008 (UTC)


 * No opinion on keeping/deleting, but given that the article states up front that "Argentine English" is the more commonly used term, if kept it should probably be moved. the wub "?!"  10:20, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete Totally bogus and OR. I lived there for over 25 years in the past and can tell you there is no such thing. There are many places where a local flavor of pidgin English words get incorporated into the language but only a few are recognized (e.g. Engrish and Singlish). There is no such thing in Argentina. -- Alexf42 12:17, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Added: the collection of external links in the article is mostly bogus too. Most of them do not even point to or show anything corroborating the claims. -- Alexf42 12:21, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

As you can see merely an older than a century newspaper can mirrors the truly traits of a society. please don't delete this one of our country: Argentina. Have a nice day all Carau(talk) 18:40, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete, In Argentina many people speak varying degrees of english. In Buenos Aires many shop signs and posters include english words, this probably has more to do with english being the global language rather than the existence of a genuine "Pidgin" language. In my opinion the existance of a number of people speaking english badly, or using the occasional word of english is not worthy of an encyclopaedia article. E  P  12:43, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete The most significant claim in the article-- that "Argentina may have some 100,000 native English speakers"-- is the one that isn't confirmed by anything I see in the sources. To do a real bad Argentish pun, I am "one prone" to doubt this. Mandsford (talk) 13:53, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:LISTCRUFT, WP:OR and WP:SYNTH. Coldmachine Talk 19:40, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete This is totally fake. I'm half-Argentinian, and I never heard of Argentish. When Argentines learn English, they don't learn this "Dialect", they learn basic International English. Lehoiberri (talk) 22:48, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * KeepMove The English diversity it is always a good thing nor must be it, in this case, compared with the Spanglish phenomenon, Argentina is a singular country with its own linguistics mutations, phenomenons which probably are happening throughout the globe. On the other hand I'm Argentinian as Marianocec user and usefully use to chat up with words as "River Plate" "colective" or even "picketer" with other BA's or La Plata's Argentines in other cases. Yes, indeed that referring on those 100000 Argentish doesn't have any support but still there are lots of "Argentish" expressions in the B. A. Herald newspaper as you would see as follow:
 * Comment I'm not at all convinced. Aren't these just English words in an English-language newspaper?  What you see as "BA City" for Buenos Aires is a headline referring to the "B.A." "City Hall", using the same type of headline shorthand as one finds in NYC or LA.  You may see "disappeared" as being a sub for Desaparecido, but it's used as a past tense verb, not a noun.  "The Pink House" as a substitute for the Casa Rosada (or the government in general) might be something that English-speaking Argentinians might use when conversing in English, but that's not much to go on.   Question-- is there a similar article on es.wikipedia.org?  Mandsford (talk) 01:51, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment Carau, I truly believe you are trying to contribute to the Wikipedia, but the article is just not encyclopedic. The term "Argentish" is something you invented yourself (please, carefully read WP:OR), and the article reads as an essay you wrote on a subject that has not been discussed before. The kind of mistakes Argentine people make while speaking in English with a turist is not to be confused with a so-called Dialect or Pidgin, claiming that there's an English dialect in Argentina because some lousy students would say "colective" for an autobus during their English class is more of a hoax than fact. What's more, Picketer, Dissapeared, pink house, and Peronism are proper English words, with exactly the same meaning as in your Argentish. There's no mention to such pidgin in the Spanish wikipedia (see f.i. es:Lenguas de Argentina. That said, I will proceed with the deletion of the article after the 5-day voting period, since I consider (and I ask the rest of the participants to speak if they don't agree) no valid arguments where given for the article to remain in Wikipedia. Good wiking, Mariano (t/c) 06:58, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

On the mention to the "Argentish" expression I can assure you that is not "my invention" as you said, on latter URL I could found the only web example before the deleted article was built.
 * Regrettable Decision Good wiking?? please I'll say "Good killing" instead. However, those "lousy" students which you mentioned are them, in your undefined English-lousy-level scale for people, so less English speaker than those who had born in oxfordshire? I belive, that those lousy students can communicate and convey theirs ideals and humans thought in English even with more freedom that you do Mister.

Ok, your are right, those proper nouns are from English, English instead Argentine English so could you please affirm that proper nouns as "Peronist", "Rugbier" are American or British English otherwise? All probably we would say that we are forgetting where Peron bore or where the River Plate is situated, undoubtedly the most historic and emotional resting meaning of these words do on the Argentine English speakers rather than on any other English speakers in the globe.

One special instance there might be on the "disappeared" word English word, by using the past participle tense, here in South America and specially in Argentina, has a profoundly relation in meanings with the dictatorship era; different would be the emotional and historic meaning of this word in the U.K. or U.S. cases.

Probably there wasn't much of evidence available in web, but in my personal experience by interacting with Argentine English speakers --or we can say to not perturb you in your personal fight against the "Argentish"-- whom use those proper noun with an Argentine emotional linking, naturally where the widening in meaning becomes huge.

Although isn't it an established dialect, an official one, this is in constant evolution within the Argentine society I do welcome this deletion with sorrowfulness and as a regretful fact either for all those people that enjoy learn and interact through English in Argentina.

Shame on whom have "disappeared" this truthful contribution to the Argentine Culture. A truly evidence that some rules should be modified to avoid the Authoritarianism of some Wikipedians who hindered behind the "official" to restrict contributions of relative newer wikipendians as this contributor does, or should I to have needed lots of barnstar or languages colored credentials to make up some contribution? or worst: restrain others new user contribution.

I do propose this obliterated article in a new category as one deleted by the "Wikipedian's Authoritarianism"

Carau(talk) 18:40, 27 August 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.