Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Argonne Rebels Drum and Bugle Corps


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to List of defunct Drum Corps International member corps. Consensus seems clear that there is not enough significant coverage in reliable, independent sources to support having a standalone article. clpo13(talk) 03:54, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

Argonne Rebels Drum and Bugle Corps

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

A new editor is objecting to my merge to List of defunct Drum Corps International member corps. Insufficient coverage to justify a stand-alone article. User:力 (powera, π,  ν ) 01:49, 21 November 2021 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: This needs further input from established editors. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Daniel (talk) 00:45, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Kansas-related deletion discussions. User:力 (powera,  π,  ν ) 01:49, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 15:10, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete Seems to fail general notabilityt guideline particularly on third party reliable sources. The coverage might be available, but as written I don't see it.  Maybe userify is the option or editing.  If it's deleted, I wouldn't oppose re-creqation once the article is better sourced.  I'm not particularly enthusiastic about personally doing the research, but if it were introduced and presented I would have no problem changing my position.--Paul McDonald (talk) 18:02, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Weak keep . It's hard to evaluate some of the sources, like the Vickers text, which doesn't have an online link. Others, like the Kansas Humanities Council link, have suffered link rot. The DCXMuseum link is just scores—routine coverage per WP:GNG.What I keep wrestling with is that this would be enough coverage for an active corps, and notability is not temporary. So that's why I'm leaning keep.In any case, deletion is the worst possible outcome for the article. I would rather see it sent to draft space for incubation, with a redirect preserved to List of defunct Drum Corps International member corps and the merged material there preserved, than to have it deleted outright. (Note: File:Argonnelogo.jpg should also be moved, and have its rationale moved, to the list if this article goes out of mainspace.) —C.Fred (talk) 02:10, 23 November 2021 (UTC) !vote superseded 18:31, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Just a comment about non-free content use since moving the infobox image was mentioned above. There would be pretty much no way to justify the infobox image’s non-free use in the list article per WP:NFCC and WP:NFLISTS and it’s unlikely a consensus could be established to do so at WP:FFD. So, if the consensus here is to redirect or merge into this to list article, the image shouldn’t be moved along with it. — Marchjuly (talk) 02:33, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the heads-up about that. I just nominated about a half-dozen other logos from the list article through FFD. —C.Fred (talk) 02:46, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep. This article should be tagged for cleanup, not deleted per Introduction to deletion process. The shortcomings of the Argonne article pointed out by contributors to this page (e.g., ‘link rot’) are valid, and can be addressed It is possible that sufficient coverage can be found to keep this page as a stand-alone.Pommerenke (talk) 15:18, 25 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep: Argonne was one of only 13 members of the Drum Corps International in 1972.  The editor/deleter/merger made an arbritray decision to merge this historical page with NO input from any member.  Following are just a few of the citations.  Many more can be found in Facebook under files and documents.
 * A History of Drum & Bugle Corps, Vol. 2; Steve Vickers, ed.; Drum Corps World, pub.; 2003
 * "Argonne Rebels Drum And Bugle Corps, Great Bend Kansas". Archived from the original on June 3, 2011. Retrieved December 29, 2014.
 * Keep : Fleetwood Records, Fall 1971 - Vinyl recording of 5.0 (perfect brass execution performance score) awarded only to Argonne and one other corps. 136.35.175.77 (talk) 17:39, 28 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep Drum Corps International - A Workable Solution  Source:  Drum Corps News, Vol. XI, No.23, December 8, 1971  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Argonne73 (talk • contribs) 02:27, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
 * "History for Argonne Rebels". Retrieved December 29, 2014.
 * "Rural Kansas Tourism - Great Bend Exploration". Retrieved December 29, 2014.
 * "Rebels with a Corps". Kansas Humanities Council. February 23, 2015. Retrieved July 8, 2017.
 * — Preceding unsigned comment added by Argonne73 (talk • contribs) 02:03, 23 Nov 2021 (UTC)
 * — Argonne73 (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.


 * Please Keep. This corps is a founding member of Drum Corps International, and the preservation of this corps must be kept! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:883:4200:6690:78C9:20B:133E:D9D3 (talk) 03:07, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep - one of the founding member corps of DCI and their history needs to be preserved. Memory is cheap for storage, memories of drum corps fans are not. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.187.146.129 (talk) 18:23, 29 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep Active url to Drum Corps International wikipedia for being one of the 13 founding members taking 5th place in 1972 in Whitewater, Wisconsin.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drum_Corps_International136.35.175.77 (talk) 17:38, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep Argonne Rebels page! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:8090:1E03:1B00:6D3D:8963:443A:6A47 (talk) 17:30, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep : The Brass Revolution https://issuu.com/drumcorpsinternational/docs/dci_today_summer_2000/1?fb_ref=Default&fbclid=IwAR1hOrMETl9ySd5_1d8wijYes6HleSIyWocUcCIW6-HpGQC9D5pCVOCysro
 * American Legion Champions announced - September 1971
 * https://www.youtube.com/watch?fbclid=IwAR2UvMVN9nCZA4dqWmtUX--Z7WFp2lQUzIO58ekIZlBon3cSiQ4c_5e999U&v=idsysyPllwo&feature=youtu.be — Preceding unsigned comment added by Argonne73 *(talk • contribs) 02:32, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
 * While the mention in DCI Today is glowing, it is also passing: a single sentence. That is not significant coverage per WP:GNG. —C.Fred (talk) 02:55, 23 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjcxXF66XYQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player&fbclid=IwAR0KY-9hFurs1RzJop4f1t3cEz5q0iSxDkKiYENVd6p1_oFOZV2lbYVovCc — Preceding unsigned comment added by Argonne73 (talk • contribs) 02:48, 23 Nov 2021 (UTC)
 * One !vote per user, please; do not start subsequent comments with any text that looks like a recommendation of what to do with the article (keep, delete, draftify, redirect, blow up and start again...). —C.Fred (talk) 02:51, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Hi there! I don't see how these two YouTube videos demonstrate Wikipedia's definition of "notability".  For what it's worth, you can search the Vickers book on Google Books, but unfortunately it doesn't show complete pages. Also, thank you for declaring your conflict of interest at User talk:力.  You should also declare it on your own user page.  Happy editing!  GoingBatty (talk) 06:07, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I added and archive-url for the "History for Argonne Rebels" corpsreps.com link on the article. There seems to be a expanded history now at http://www.dcxmuseum.org/index.cfm?view=corpslist&CorpsID=5  which is based on the Vickers book.  I don't see any mention of Argonne at getruralkansas.org - maybe you can find it.  I also added an archive-url for the Kansas Humanities Council article.  Hope this helps!  GoingBatty (talk) 06:20, 24 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep history; merge content into and turn page into redirect to List of defunct Drum Corps International member corps. After reviewing things the past several days, I am convinced that this corps does not need a stand-alone article. However, information about it should be merged into the list article on defunct DCI corps, and we should keep the edit history of this page for edit reasons. Notionally, that's a keep outcome, but I want to make it clear that I do not think that this article should survive as a stand-alone article. —C.Fred (talk) 18:31, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
 * this discussion was canvassed on a Facebook group with a clear pro-Argonne position; I personally viewed the post, which encouraged people to come here and stack the !vote. See WP:CANVASS. Therefore, I have semi-protected this discussion to prevent further disruption, and will move all non-autoconfirmed contributions to the talk page hat all non-autoconfirmed contributions above. Thanks, Daniel (talk) 03:14, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Content moved. Daniel (talk) 03:21, 30 November 2021 (UTC) Content hatted. Daniel (talk) 19:26, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Redirect to List of defunct Drum Corps International member corps for now (assuming that list meets WP:NLIST). There are five sources in this article and four of them are not reliable, independent, secondary sources. The only source that could be (A History of Drum & Bugle Corps) is not easily accessible so I can't say if it gives it WP:SIGCOV. Anyway, its just one source, and WP:GNG requires multiple.VR talk 04:42, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Redirect per above comments which make a lot of sense. Cullen328 (talk) 06:26, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Merge/Redirect Notable enough for mention in the list, not notable enough for it's own article. BSMRD (talk) 16:12, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep Sources aren't great, but, coverage in Emporia Gazette and a few similar articles indicate that there is wider coverage. Nothing great and nothing new, but still above the WP:N bar IMO. Hobit (talk) 16:26, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Redirect as proposed above. No evidence of significant coverage in reliable independent sources in the article or in searches. What is available to be examined that is reliable is either not significant or not reliable and vice-versa. The sources presented since this discussion began are not convincing evidence of WP:N, being either the blog of a humanities council or very local coverage, but they are enough to preserve the edit history through redirecting.  Eggishorn  (talk) (contrib) 17:37, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * https://www.dci.org/news/argonne-rebels-subject-of-new-smithsonian-exhibit — Preceding unsigned comment added by Argonne73 (talk • contribs) 19:27, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Redirect - sourcing appears to largely be passing or trivial local coverage. Sergecross73   msg me  20:34, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Redirect per nom.  Mini  apolis  23:46, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Redirect, I guess. I think we're ready for closing. Drmies (talk) 03:40, 1 December 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.