Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Arlyn


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Cirt (talk) 08:23, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Arlyn

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Non-notable musician who has yet to release a debut album. Truthbanks12345 (talk) 04:24, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions.  -- — LinguistAtLarge • Talk  04:46, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete The only way he could potentially pass WP:MUSIC is for his tour with Magna Carta. But there is no indication of "non-trivial coverage in a reliable source". TheJazzDalek (talk) 12:56, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

On the contrary, Arlyn is a notable proponent of the emerging SA new folk scene. For instance, see the following recent press publications: http://overtone.co.za/musicblog/magical-avant-garde-folk-tour-kicks-off/2008/11/12/events/music/download/south%20africa/events/live%20bands/free%20downloads/reviews/venues

http://www.jhblive.com/live/publications_view.jsp?pub_id=253742

http://new.overtone.co.za/musicblog/humble-folk-goes-avant-garde-11th-17th-nov

http://www.designindaba.com/press-release/design-indaba-magazine-crafts-future

http://www.thecitizen.co.za/index/article.aspx?pDesc=82516,1,22

http://www.capetownmagazine.com/events/The-Folk-Avant-Garde-Western-Cape-Tour~1171

In addition, Arlyn has in fact released a debut single, which has sold over 1500 copies at live events [quantity not verifiable], and an instrumental EP. Please refer to http://www.myspace.com/arlynsolo for evidence of this recording, though.

Finally Magna Carta's official website, www.magnac.com, makes repeated and substantial reference to Arlyn's involvment in their South African tours. See http://www.magnac.com/concerts2007/taphuisj.shtml, http://www.magnac.com/concerts2007/smokeyswallows.shtml, http://www.magnac.com/concerts2007/tapasalsol.shtml, etc. Many other websites make mention of this too: http://www.witness.co.za/index.php?showcontent&global[_id]=10540, http://www.thepavilion.co.za/theatre-magna-carta.htm

The above facts have been added to Arlyn's wikipedia entry. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Arlynculwick (talk • contribs) 13:53, 2 April 2009 (UTC) — Arlynculwick (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * That's a lot of links. Here's what it boils down to: Overtone is a booking agent so those two articles are promotional and not independent of the subject of the article, the JHBLive (reliability?) article is just a list of "up-and-coming" artists with single-paragraph bios of each, with Design Indaba I may be overlooking it but I can't find a mention at the link provided, The Citizen is the most solid reference but unfortunately it's only 6 sentences about a package tour and only verifies that Arlyn opened for Magna Carta on 2 tours and was part of a planned package tour, Capetown Magazine's is the exact same 6 sentences from The Citizen with 4 additional sentences plus a list of tour dates.
 * So, while 2 tours with Magna Carta are verified from a reliable source, it's still far from the "non-trivial coverage" specified by WP:MUSIC. None of the rest counts toward WP:MUSIC in my interpretation. TheJazzDalek (talk) 14:39, 2 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I think there's been a bit of a misapprehension here. It is important to note that Arlyn is not described in this wikipedia article as a musician, singer-songwriter, etc. Rather, Arlyn is decribed impersonally as a "musical venture aimed at creating an expression of folk music within a current contemporary idiom" - something which includes singing and writing songs, but also includes philosophising about music itself, engaging in cultural experiments, creating events, and attempting to realise the possibility of folk-minimalism as a general cultural mode and not just a private artistic expression.  Therefore, any publication related to Arlyn that is geared towards these objectives is non-trivially about Arlyn.


 * - Overtone is not merely a booking agent, and also was not involved in this capacity with respect to the articles in question. In more detail, Overtone is a music-focussed social networking site that (a) hosts profiles for musicians, venues, managers, etc. (b) covers newsworthy music-related events, (c) has a music store, and (d) does artist bookings.  In the above articles, Overtone includes no links to its music store or bookings department, and gives no indication at all of a partisan involvement in the Folk Avant Garde tour.  Therefore, the claim that the articles are "promotional" is unjustified.


 * - The Folk Avant Garde tour was created by Arlyn. It is as much Arlyn's work as Arlyn's music is. Therefore, coverage of the tour is part of Arlyn's "musical venture". As such, any article covering the tour makes exclusive, non-trivial reference to Arlyn's musical venture.


 * - JHBLive is a major Johannesburg culture e-mag. Any mention of an artist being up-and-coming is therefore fairly significant coverage. Furthermore, JHBLive does not publish long articles on anything, as is standard with online magazines.  Also, suspicions about JHBLive's unreliability are unsubstantiated.


 * - Design Indaba is a print magazine. It does not replicate its content online, but merely mentions it. Nevertheless, on pages 66-73 of their 1st Quarter edition of 2009 can be found a feature article on South African new-folk, which makes extensive reference to Arlyn, the Folk Avant Garde tour, its significance in bringing about an SA folk scene, and the fact that Arlyn created this tour and wrote the press releases that raised consciousness about a folk 'scene' in national media.


 * - Yes, the Citizen and Capetown Magazine (a) give insubstantial coverage and (b) are not devoted exlusively to Arlyn as a musician. Rather, they repeat material in the press release for the Folk Avant Garde tour (which, as described above, is part of the "musical venture" which is Arlyn.


 * I hope this is sufficient to dispell any doubt about this article's appropriateness. :-) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Arlynculwick (talk • contribs) 16:08, 2 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment: Arlyn, can I give you some advice? Ask another editor to help in writing/rewriting the article. It has inherent WP:COI and WP:PROMOTION issues otherwise . No vote from me yet. JamesBurns (talk) 05:21, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks James. Yes, I think third party input is crucial in sorting this out.  Do you know of anyone who would be obliging?
 * I'll use the talk page to get started on issues surrounding conflict of interest and promotion... let's hope other people get involved. Shotto:-)--Arlynculwick (talk) 10:29, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Ask for assistance on New contributors' help page. Keep an copy of your article on your user account sandbox. Get editors to have a look at it and edit. When it's ready, ask for a review. That's what I would do. JamesBurns (talk) 05:11, 5 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete - Not-notable. Fails WP:CREATIVE. No 3rd party independent articles on the musician. All links appear to be self-promotional. The guy is not even listed at allmusic.com. Untick (talk) 04:05, 4 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment: Untick, did you take a look at any of the previous discussion on this page? Arlyn is not a musician (Arlyn is a musical project), and I cannot imagine in what possible sense the links (either on this page or on the entry itself) are self-promotional.  They are from sources independent of the subject!  Please try to justify your opinion as I find it bizarre.--Arlynculwick (talk) 14:37, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Arlynculwick, have you declared your Conflict of interest as is "strongly encouraged" by WP:COI? Untick (talk) 21:19, 4 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete fails creative, fails band. "Arlyn" may become notable after it releases something. Who know?Bali ultimate (talk) 22:32, 4 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment Arlyn is not a band or merely a 'creative' entity. Therefore it is inapplicable to say that Arlyn "fails" these criteria.  Rather, they simply do not apply.
 * Even if one were to accept this argument, the "concept" of Arlyn would still have to meet WP:GNG, which it/he/they/she does not. TheJazzDalek (talk) 12:40, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment The criteria for notability do NOT require that a musician releases an album. Also, since Arlyn is not a musician, these criteria are misapplied in any case.  Arlyn is notable for the structural position it currently enacts in South African new-folk culture.  Can anyone disagree with this, given the sources above?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Arlynculwick (talk • contribs) 21:40, 5 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment Thanks Untick - yes, I discussed a possible conflict of interest on Arlyn's talk page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arlyn).
 * I've also just declared my conflict of interest on my user page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Arlynculwick). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Arlynculwick (talk • contribs) 07:58, 6 April 2009 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.