Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Armorial of Presidents of Finland


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete.  Sandstein  17:44, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Armorial of Presidents of Finland

 * – ( View AfD View log )

Unsourced article on a non notable aspect of these presidents / the presidency. Fram (talk) 08:40, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions. Fram (talk) 08:40, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Finland-related deletion discussions. Fram (talk) 08:40, 16 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Comment Can you clarify in what sense this is non-notable? Surely the subject matter, namely each of the coats of arms individually, is demonstrably notable, so is the non-notability in the listing of them together? -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 09:22, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm not convinced that individual coat of arms are notable either, but that's a separate discussion. But if they are notable, they are notable for the person they belong to, and should be included in their article as a short paragraph. But this AfD is indeed for the grouping, the combination of two separate topics into one list. One could make lists of presidents of finland based on hundreds of characteristics, and some of them would be acceptable (political affiliation or so), some would be instantly dismissed as rdiculous ("by number of vowels in their name"), and some could be notable if they have been discussed, as a group, by reliable sources. As an example, we have List of presidents of the United States with facial hair, which seems ridiculous, and has been nominated for deletion 5 times; but it is kept, because there are serious sources actually discussing this topic. If the same can be found for this list of armorials, then it should be kept as well. Fram (talk) 09:56, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment I note that several of these AfDs have been put forward. Is there any merit in combining them? Presumably whatever arguments there are would apply to all/most of them? -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 09:22, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
 * The arguments to delete them are identical; but it may turn out that while there are e.g. no sources for Finland, there are sources for some of the others. I doubt that there will be a common good source for all of them. Fram (talk) 09:56, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Doesn't this contradict your previous point? If the concept (of coats of arms of heads of state) is unacceptable, then wouldn't that be true for every such listing, regardless of whether or not supported by references? Or are you talking about sources specifically discussing them as a group, rather than individually? (Mainly asking because there are sources in the Finnish wiki article which could be imported, but they may be citing coats of arms individually, and not collectively.) -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 11:19, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, I mean sources discussing the group topic. If you would have e.g. some books or chapters discussing the armorials of these presidents together, then it would show that this topic was indeed notable. If on the other hand you have a book discussing armorials of Finnish people, and these are included but not really grouped or discussed specifically, then it doesn't show notability for the list. Fram (talk) 12:45, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment My gut thinks this encyclopaedic, if it can be properly sourced. SportingFlyer  T · C  15:13, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete Not many Finnish have arms. This list has 1 median daily pageview over the last year and just isn't useful and fails WP:NOTABLE. 122.60.173.107 (talk) 07:03, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete per 122.60.173.107, who has summed up well. Gog the Mild (talk) 18:37, 23 November 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.