Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Arrernte Council


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Seems like the consensus is that the topic may be notable, but in its current version it is spammy and possibly copyright violating. The deletion policy does allow for deletion in copyvio/spam circumstances so the WP:TNT deletion argument is well taken. No prejudice against recreation. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 08:16, 27 June 2019 (UTC)

Arrernte Council

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I've just used Twinkle to tag a whole swag of issues with this article - but the main one is that, apart from some history of registration as a charity (https://www.acnc.gov.au/charity/3cd4537d23bb3483ec7295c70806a5cb#history) in 2012, I can't find anything to verify its existence or describe what it does or has done. The article is so muddled as to be worthless at this point, IMO. Some of the info may be usefully added to the Arrernte people, but it's all unsourced and hasn't undergone much substantial editing since 2008. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 10:06, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 10:06, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Australia-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 10:34, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politics-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 10:34, 12 June 2019 (UTC)

...and this edit says it all about how far we can trust the accuracy of the information. SpinningSpark 17:07, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
 * I just need to read that "The Arrernte Council's board vision is a vibrant and energetic successful business..." to say delete per WP:TNT regardless of whether the subject proves to be notable, which at the moment, it is a long way from demonstrating, being totally unsourced. SpinningSpark 17:01, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes, that is a complicated area, the relationship of the peoples (who have been there longer) to the various languages and cultural identities... but as you say, an indicator of the accuracy. I can't see how it's useful to anyone really, in its present form. I've also put a note on the talk page of Arrernte (area), as it too seems a bit useless in its present form - and, apart from some vague references to the traditional tribal lands of the various groups of Arrernte (which definition is in itself problematical!), I can't see this one being usefully grown either. Better nothing than misleading or confusing info, IMO. Anyway I'll await discussion and consensus. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 09:21, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, – filelakeshoe (t / c) 🐱 18:06, 19 June 2019 (UTC) Comment no doubt the article in current format fails Wikipedia policy in multiple areas. As a charity it is possibly the vehicle for handling the native title (ie ownership) rights of the Arrernte people, but that is not clear to me. However, the director Paul Ah Chee is notable (portrait in the Australian National Portrait Gallery, notable indigenous musician from the band Amunda). There is no article for him, but possibly this could be redirected to page about him.--Goldsztajn (talk) 23:13, 20 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Comment I can find quite a lot of sources about it just by googling. I will have to do more research to find the best sources and accurate information, but it's clear that Charles Perkins (Aboriginal activist) either established it, and/or was an early chairperson or president - from 1984-1988 and again from 1991-2000 , or from 1989 , or from 1991-1994 . (The Encyclopaedia of Aboriginal Australia says the Arrernte Council was established in 1986, and has info about its functions as at 1994.) Perkins certainly was chair in 1993, when the Arrernte Council organised the National Indigenous Business Conference . In 1998, the Arrernte Council was incorporating CDEP into business ventures . By 2005, it had gone into administration, realised assets and appointed new councillors , in 2006 the Council was found guilty of damage to sacred sites , in May 2009 the chair Paul Ah Chee was talking about plans for a housing estate , by December 2009 they had no funding and had to lay off staff . A Trove search shows information in more articles . The article in its current form needs major editing, being apparently copied in toto from a website (I can see why an Arrernte Council website would have information about Arrernte history, but a Wikipedia article on the Arrernte Council does not need that - it can just link to Arrernte people (although that could do with improvement too). I think it's highly likely that this will meet WP:ORGCRITE - I'll try to work on the article. RebeccaGreen (talk) 14:58, 25 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Rebecca, given the POV and possible copyvio in this article, don't you think you would be better off starting with a blank page? It's hard to see that you could safely retain much of the current offering, so my TNT delete still stands at the moment. SpinningSpark</b> 15:27, 25 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes, it wouldn't really make much difference, there's very little that I would keep anyway. The only useful info really is the companies owned by the council (Arrernte Workforce Solutions; CAL Accredited Construction, Servicing, Recruitment and Event Management) which gives more search terms - and there was other information in earlier versions of the article, that they owned Imparja Television, 8 Kin FM, and CAAMA; again, more to search on. But there was also some COI editing, which seems to be where the copy/pasting and non-neutral wording came from. Not being able to access deleted articles myself (I know I can ask, just not as quick), I do like having access to the history of the article - but having checked it now, I've probably picked up the only useful bits already. RebeccaGreen (talk) 16:13, 25 June 2019 (UTC)


 * Delete Fails WP:NOPAGE and WP:PROMO as in its current form this article is a complete disaster with likely copyvio violations. Needs WP:TNT. Would not be opposed to being recreated from scratch if notability can be proven, as seems likely according to Rebecca. Newshunter12 (talk) 05:02, 26 June 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.