Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Arsenal F.C.–Stoke City F.C. rivalry


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. j⚛e deckertalk 02:41, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

Arsenal F.C.–Stoke City F.C. rivalry

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A well-written article - but not a notable one. This entire "rivalry" seems to be attributed to one incident in one match (Shawcross' tackle on Ramsay) and is not actually a "rivalry" of any kind. Fails WP:GNG and WP:NRIVALRY. GiantSnowman 08:18, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. GiantSnowman 08:19, 13 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete – There is no actual rivalry between these two teams, regardless of any mild antagonism in the last few years. These two sides never compete directly for silverware, and they're not geographically close; the only real beef here is between a few vocal Arsenal fans and Ryan Shawcross for injuring Aaron Ramsey. – PeeJay 13:32, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete - Agreed. Just because there was a bunch of BS between the two, like what PeeJay mentioned, Ramsey suffering a double fracture at the hands of Shawcross, doesn't make this a rivalry.  That's like WP:1E.  So yeah, fails WP:GNG and WP:NRIVALRY. – Michael (talk) 17:00, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete - as noted above, there is no genuine rivalry between these clubs -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 16:48, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment As this was on the frontpage the other day, I've notified the DYK project. Thanks.  Lugnuts  Dick Laurent is dead 16:56, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment It's just so things like this can happen once in a while that DYK insists on showcasing content less than a week old. EEng (talk) 17:48, 13 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep per GNG. There are several sources in there that mention this as a rivalry.  The C of E God Save the Queen!  ( talk ) 20:52, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
 * That is not the same as "significant coverage." GiantSnowman 20:54, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I think that coverage in several national and regional newspapers and football specialist news websites over several years counts as "significant coverage" Of course there isn't going to be much pre-2008 as the rivalry is comparatively recent (as the article attests) and they hadn't played each other for years.  The C of E God Save the Queen!  ( talk ) 20:57, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Again, no significant coverage of this as a notable rivalry. GiantSnowman 20:59, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I repeat the point. Coverage in several national and regional newspapers and football specialist news websites over several years is significant coverage as a notable rivalry given that most of them mention it as a rivalry within the first paragraph or title.  The C of E God Save the Queen!  ( talk ) 21:02, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I see just one title with rival. To save us trawling through the zillion sources can you give the links here to those that mention a rivalry in their text? EEng (talk) 22:49, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Very well. Goal.com, Bleacher Report, Sentinel, Sky Sports, Daily Mirror, BBC, Tribal Football and Metro shows that fans believe there is a rivalry. Definitely significant coverage.  The C of E God Save the Queen!  ( talk ) 06:39, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, there certainly are several mentions of a "developing rivalry", "rivalry in the last few years" and so on. I guess the question is whether that coverage adds up to a big-R Rivalry or a little-r rivalry, if you get my drift. I really can't tell because I don't understand the footy context well at all, so I'll leave that to others. EEng (talk) 06:55, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 23:00, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 23:01, 13 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete - bar the Ramsey injury, there is nothing that indicates a genuine rivalry to the level required by WP:NRIVALRY. Fenix down (talk)
 * All NRIVALRY says is follow GNG. Which clearly it does fulfil as I mentioned above.  The C of E God Save the Queen!  ( talk ) 07:42, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Except for the following significant issues:
 * Goal.com - the basis almost entirely on the Shawcross challenge.
 * Bleacher Report - doesn't even mention the notion of rivalry and is a set of predictions for an upcoming fixture.
 * Sentinel - just summarises a few meetings. Mentions the word rivalry once but does not expand on it. Nothing in here that discusses any rivalry in a wider context.
 * Sky Sports - one paragraph on Pulis v Wenger. Essentially states that everything boils down to the Shawcross challenge. No significant discussion of any rivalry.
 * Daily Mirror - is a match report, not an article on any rivalry. One very brief mention on "rivalry" which provdes nothing to support the assertion.
 * BBC - post match interviews with managers are hardly reliable sources. Again one brief mention of the word rivalry, no expansion on that assertion.
 * Tribal Football - very short article, mainly quotes from the manager, so hardly significant coverage from a reliable source as required by GNG.
 * Metro - doesn't even mention the notion of rivalry.
 * Yes, the clubs don't particularly like each other, yes, they play each other at least twice a season at the moment, but no, there simply is not sufficient significant reliable coverage of the notion of rivalry between the two clubs to warrant an individual article. Fenix down (talk) 10:22, 16 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete. Never seen one of these survive afd, not this one either. Szzuk (talk) 10:04, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete. There is no clear rivalry between these clubs and no history. QED237&#160;(talk) 12:43, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete: while there are some reliable sources there is no significant coverage. Plus, My friendly neighbourhood Stoke fan has always said it's more a dislike of Arsene Wenger than Arsenal per se. I've never known an Arsenal fan to comment on it at all. =>  Spudgfsh  ( Text Me! ) 17:03, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
 * OR! POV! COI! ANI! Block! Ban! EEng (talk) 17:34, 16 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete, per the thoughts of WP:TOOSOON. It is something that might develop into a full rivalry, but probably won't. There are loads of examples through the history of sport where there is an incident with the result that supporters / players / coaches of Team A bear a grudge / make bad comments about Team B, but in most cases it melts away into the territory of "do you remember....?" and doesn't develop into an ongoing rivalry. I suspect in this case that most or all of this "rivalry" will dissipate when the central figures to the incident (Shawcross in particular) move on. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 09:04, 17 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I imagine a lot of people said the same about Palace and Brighton and look what happened there.  The C of E God Save the Queen!  ( talk ) 09:20, 17 July 2014 (UTC)
 * That's the point though, "look what happened", i.e. look what grew out of the fixtures over time. At this point there simply isn't enough in the sources. There might be in the future inwhich case what is present will become relevant. Fenix down (talk) 09:37, 17 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Exactly - there was some really bad feeling between my team (Gillingham) and AFC Bournemouth for three or four years after Andy Hessenthaler was very seriously injured by a challenge from a Bournemouth player, but now it's basically all forgotten..... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 09:53, 17 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Educational note: Can someone please explain this odd (to an American) use of this word fixture? EEng (talk) 11:49, 17 July 2014 (UTC)
 * It just means a match, basically. What you would (I would imagine) refer to as a "season schedule", we call a "fixture list" i.e. a list of individual fixtures -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 12:04, 17 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Somehow I never, ever heard that before. There's even this! EEng (talk) 05:14, 18 July 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.