Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Artificial Joy


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   speedy delete. A7 Secret account 18:07, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

Artificial Joy

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Very poor sources. Two are about another band and don't mention Artificial Joy, one is an Amazon page, and another is a very brief mention in a blog. The band self-published an EP and toured for a few years, but isn't enough to establish WP:BAND. Some members may be borderline notable, but notability is not inherited. Grayfell (talk) 23:37, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

When the article was created in December 2013, it had several clean-up tags on it from May, indicating it was a copy/paste job. [] This was presumably because it was originally derived from the article Artificial Joy NYC. It was, in fact, almost identical, so I turned that article into a redirect before I noticed what was going on. Messy stuff. Grayfell (talk) 02:13, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

Secondary Source is a legit source from Official Amazon biography http://www.amazon.com/Size-14/e/B000APVK22/ref=ntt_mus_dp_pel,  No reason for article deletion,    User Grayfell editing all entries relating to Robt Ptak and seems to have some kind of personal vendetta against the artist  --Subtitlemeplease (talk) 02:24, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
 * The profile on that link specifically says it's provided by the artist (or rather the related band Size 14) to Amazon, it is not WP:SECONDARY, and further, it barely even mentions Artificial Joy. I have no vendetta against the artist, and have been editing these articles because they are mostly badly written and in need of cleanup. Grayfell (talk) 03:20, 2 October 2014 (UTC)

The Amazon bio mentioning Artificial Joy  is managed by the artist Size 14 so it is WP:SECONDARY  All members of Artificial Joy were in major label bands so meet the requirements for WP:BAND please check each members bio for proof of this - Drummer Alex Elena was even the drummer for Avril Lavigne's album Let go  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Subtitlemeplease (talk • contribs) 08:20, 2 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Really? Size 14 was founded by Robt Ptak, and according to his Wikipedia page (written by the same small group of editors), he manages the band's Facebook page and other websites. Robt Ptak is Artificial Joy. The bio itself specifically makes that point. It's clearly the same person, let's not pretend otherwise. The band may, possibly pass some of the WP:BAND specifics, but I don't think they pass WP:GNG without some reliable secondary sources. Passing GNG is the more pressing goal. As an alternate, the article could be merged with Robt Ptak, but lacking solid sources, it would be greatly reduced in size. Grayfell (talk) 08:51, 2 October 2014 (UTC)

It passes WP:BAND therefore it does not need deleting. Thanks --Subtitlemeplease (talk) 17:45, 2 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Again, since there are no reliable, secondary sources, the band has not been established as notable. The band didn't produce any non-self-published albums, received no substantial press coverage that I've seen, and has not been cited by any notable outside musicians as being influential. Other than Ptak, the two supposedly notable members are Milena Mepris and Alex Elena. While their membership might, arguably, lead to the band meeting WP:BAND, those articles have too many notability problems of their own to ignore.


 * Mepris' article (which was also created by you) has extremely poor sources. After looking into it closer, I'm suggesting that her article be merged with Pin Me Down, since that is her only substantiated claim to notability.


 * Elena's only claim to fame seems to be having worked with more famous musicians, but again, there are no reliable secondary sources. The only secondary source for THAT article is a brief blurb in a metal blog which accepts WP:UGC, lists no author, and reads like a press release. Again, very poor sources there.


 * Claiming that the article just barely meets a single requirement of WP:BAND seems like trying to squeak by on a technicality. After thinking about it further, think this article should be merged with Ptak's instead of being deleted. Without reliable, secondary sources this is just a semi-WP:WALLEDGARDEN of vanity articles. Grayfell (talk) 20:40, 2 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of California-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:11, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of New York-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:11, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:12, 26 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spartaz Humbug! 16:24, 3 October 2014 (UTC)



Grayfell is following me around on Wikipedia editing all of my posts, he has even been editing the company I WORK for wikipedia page, this is bordering on Stalking Could someone else please check whether the Artificial Joy page should be reinstated? --Subtitlemeplease (talk) 01:31, 5 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Subtitlemeplease, when you link to a user's page, it notifies that user, which is why I am responding. I understand your concern but stalking is not what's happening. You added spam to an article on my watchlist (the UK Locksmithing thing). When I reverted that, I also checked your edit history to see if you had added any other spammy links. This is common practice to prevent vandalism. I then edited some of the articles you created to clean them up. When doing so, I added them to my WP:WATCHLIST. You retaliated by blanking my talk page. I decided it wasn't worth the hassle, and backed off, but those articles remained on my watchlist. When one of those article showed up again, I decided to look closer and began editing them. If you feel my behavior is inappropriate, I suggest you describe what is happening at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents. There are only few people watching this deletion discussion, so discussing it here is probably not going to accomplish much. WP:AIN, however, is very active, and will attract administrator attention if you still feel that is necessary. Grayfell (talk) 02:21, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

Grayfell Sorry I don't have time to make some report. I just only ever edited the pages so that these bands primarily Size 14 and its associated acts/members got a bit of recognition for the music they produced in the 90s. If you want to try and get these deleted/wiped it thats your choice. --Subtitlemeplease (talk) 03:47, 5 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Your writing style is very distinctive. Are you the same person who wrote the Amazon bio? Grayfell (talk) 03:59, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

No I did not write the Amazon bio, I'm just a fan of the band, I'm from the UK not Los Angeles - Whoever owns the copyright to their music/has access to edit a Amazon Artists bio would have wrote it. --Subtitlemeplease (talk) 05:22, 5 October 2014 (UTC) 
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, —Tom Morris (talk) 14:18, 11 October 2014 (UTC)




 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.