Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Artsakh Air


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. The newly found Russian sources are very helpful in establishing this airline's notability. However, we can't assume the "delete" !votes are no longer relevant. King of &hearts;   &diams;   &clubs;  &spades; 10:00, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Artsakh Air

 * – ( View AfD View log )

Airline that has not begun flying. Given the status for Nagorno-Karabakh and the fact that this would be the first airline flying to Stepanakert Airport in years it would be notable even as a project, however the only source for "Artsakh Air" is an online news site and Google has no hits either. Unless someone finds sources under a different name this is likely a case of WP:CRYSTAL Travelbird (talk) 07:17, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep Wikipedia maintains articles for airlines that have ceased operating. This one will be operating shortly. This one has an operational head office at Stepanakert airport. Undoubtedly the article needs sources from local news sites that will have news of this new airline (in Armenian, Russian, and Turkish languages). There are a number of English language sources on Google already. Marking for rescue.  Nipson anomhmata   (Talk) 20:53, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment If reliable sources can be found that the airline is planned and the name is "Artsakh Air" then I have no objection to the article. Travelbird (talk) 20:55, 27 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Note: The article under discussion here has been rescue flagged for the Article Rescue Squadron to review.  Snotty Wong   yak 22:20, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Weak Delete - The only source I could find is this one-paragraph mention (which happens to be the only reference in the article currently). Unless more significant coverage can be found, there is not enough here on which to base an article.  Snotty Wong   yak 22:20, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete Due to lack of sources and WP:V. There are so many issue with starting this thing that the targeted May date is highly unrealistic.  I also suspect that 'Artsakh Air' may just end up only being a branding of flights to the region operated by Armavia, and contracted for by the Artsakh government.  Any useful info can be merged into Stepanakert Air Base, (which I have now done so.) No objections to the article being re-created once the company starts flights.  Ravendrop (talk) 00:00, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep per Nipsonanohmata. Sources have been added. - Fedayee (talk) 07:43, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment. There are a couple of problems with the sources. Number 1: the 'two' sources on the page are actually the exact same source.  It is a piece written by Radio Free Europe, which has then been republished by two different media outlets, using the EXACT SAME wording.  Secondly, the source is an in depth piece on the Stepanakert Air Base, and contains a single, less than a sentence, mention of Artsakh Air.  Thirdly, there is no concrete verification of the existence of this airline.  The 'source' used on the page is speculative, not concrete.  There is no webpage, no phone-number, no business license, no aircraft, no civil aviation license, no landing rights, no lease agreements; nothing that verifies that this airline exists (and is more than an intention to create one by the government).  Ravendrop (talk) 08:19, 28 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Comment The source of the name "Artsakh Air" seems to be Radio Free Europe. Asbarez has a wording that is extremely similar to that of RFE and Hürriyet and others clearly state RFE as the source for their articles. At the moment it seems more of a loosely planned project than an actual company. If the company really does exist under the name "Artsakh Air" then it really shouldn't be this hard to find refs, as a new national airline being founded would undoubtedly have had extensive coverage in the local media. If there isn't anything to be found then (even in Armenian) then this project is not likely to be notable nor WP:V Travelbird (talk) 10:16, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Transportation-related deletion discussions.  -- Jclemens-public (talk) 00:03, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Business-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 02:13, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete. Per Ravendrop. Twilight chill  t   15:12, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete: insufficient coverage to meet WP:GNG or WP:ORG, WP:CRYSTAL (and paranthetically, being the official carrier of a de facto nation does not add much inherent notability). HrafnTalkStalk(P) 16:44, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete. Per Ravendrop. Atabəy (talk) 00:09, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete. Per Ravendrop. This article makes no sense.--NovaSkola (talk) 00:17, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep There are lots of cources on Russian (1,2, 3, 4) and Armenian (1, 2, 3).--Pandukht (talk) 20:00, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you for providing those. The Russian ones do mention the name "Artsakh Air" but as far as I can gather with my limited Russian they seem to focus more on the objection of Azerbaijan to flights in principle.
 * #1 is also available in English, although the Russian one does have the name "Эйр Арцах"
 * NB that Russian sources #1-4 have an identical text so they can only be considered as one source.
 * Unfortunately I can't read Armenian. Do the Armenian language sources have more info on the company (e.g. date of establishment, address of head-office, a concrete date for the commencement of flights) ?
 * The Google translation of Armenian source #3 seems to be fairly good but it only gives May as tentative planned starting date. The last sentence seems to indicate that the company hasn't yet been founded "The company, remind, will be called Air Artsakh, and the airport, airport in Stepanakert." However I realize that I'm basing this on a Google translation so I'll defer to anyone who actually speaks the language.
 * Armenian source #2 Google translation (quite bad) seems to be largely identical in content to #3
 * Armenian source #1 is again very similar to #3&#2.
 * To sum this up:
 * We can source the name Air Artsakh (or Artsakh Air) as the planned name of the company.
 * We have a planned date for flight to start sometime in May.
 * We have a planned number of planes
 * Thus --> The airline certainly isn't notable as a company as we still don't have proof that it actually exists as of today. The question is: could this be notable enough as a project alone. It would certainly be a major development to have a resumption of flights after twenty years. But at this point I would say that we haven't reached the advanced planning stage yet, where enough is known about the proposed airline to warrant its own article (e.g. a finalized name, planes that are actually ordered, offices that are open, flight schedules etc).
 * At this point I would propose that the info we do have (and can source) is merged into Stepanakert_Air_Base. If this airline ever does take off then I'd have no problem with the article being re-created. But at present it's simply too early for a separate one. Travelbird (talk) 21:36, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment Actually there is proof that Artsakh Air exists today. It already has a head office that is operational at Stepanakert airport which is doing the preparation for getting the airline ready in May and this is noted in at least two of the articles that I've read. And, most of these articles have been published in the last four days (the AfD request appears to have been put forward before most of these articles were published).  Nipson anomhmata   (Talk) 00:50, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment Could you point out which source has the address of the head-office ? Travelbird (talk) 09:09, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment None of the sources listed shows a postal address. But most of the sources say something like the first reference:
 * Dmitry Atbashian, head of the local civil aviation authority, said a state-run airline has already been set up to carry out those flights on a daily basis.
 * The current existence of Artsakh Air is unquestionable.  Nipson anomhmata   (Talk) 13:46, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, I've read those statements as well. However the ones I've seen always say "will" not "have" set up.
 * As I said in my nomination, this is a matter of WP:CRYSTAL. For a variety of reasons, it is unclear at the moment when and if this airline will ever fly. That is why I would feel much more comfortable with the project being included in Stepanakert Air Base instead. If the airline doesn't end up flying - e.g. because Armavia flies instead to avoid problems with ICAO (just like KTHY was a Turkish registered airline, not a Northern Cypriot one for very similar reasons) - then nothing further needs to happen, the project is notable enough for a mention in that article. If Artsakh Air flights do start in May, then the info can be moved once again to Artsakh Air or whatever the airline's actual name will be. Travelbird (talk) 14:01, 31 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep - basically per the nom, "Given the status for Nagorno-Karabakh and the fact that this would be the first airline flying to Stepanakert Airport in years it would be notable even as a project". As sources have been found, the only problem has been solved. Clearly notable even as a project given the news coverage, and given the political significance of a project that attempts to create the first flag carriers of the Nagorno-Karabakh republic. Pantherskin (talk) 14:00, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep Based on sources found. It does exist, and gets coverage, just not a lot in easily found English sources of course.   D r e a m Focus  17:31, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Armenia-related deletion discussions.  --   Nipson anomhmata   (Talk) 12:38, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.