Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Arya (tribe)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Black Kite (talk) 12:20, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Arya (tribe)

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Completely bogus POV article whose only purpose seems to be "proving" the existence of an ancient tribe called "Arya" (contrary to the currently established theories on Indo-Aryan migration). Detailed discussion at Talk:Aryan migration to Assam.  kashmiri TALK  22:58, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:20, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ethnic groups-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:20, 21 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Support: None of the references cited supports the claim made in the article. The first reference, Fortson (p209) says: "...Indic is also called Indo-Aryan.  The word 'Aryan' has had a rather complicated history. The Sanskrit word ārya-, the source of the English word, was the self designation of the Vedic Indic people and has a cognate in Iranian *arya- where it is also a self designation.  Both the Indic and Iranian terms descend from a form [...] that was used by the Indo-Iranian tribes to refer to themselves."  This makes no mention of a tribe named "Arya", rather that the people who called themselves Arya were not just the "Vedic Indic people" but the superset of Indo-Iranians, both of which are linguistic groups of many tribes, not just one.  The different tribes of the "Vedic Indic people" are given in List of Rigvedic tribes.  The article deserves to be deleted, as it is based purely on original research.  Chaipau (talk) 09:38, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete per Chaipau, WP:OR, WP:MADEUP. Bearian (talk) 16:08, 23 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete. I see no evidence that any tribe of this name ever existed, and there are plenty of sources that support Chaipau's statement above. Phil Bridger (talk) 07:07, 24 July 2013 (UTC)


 * For main discussion, see talk  भास्कर् Bhagawati  Speak 11:17, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
 * The main discussion is here - the talk page is only for discussion of things such as process questions that do not have have a direct bearing on whether the article is kept or deleted - so I'll copy the relevant comments immediately below. Phil Bridger (talk) 11:51, 24 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Kashmiri you rather see the references in article, importantly citation two i.e Shendge, Malati Janardan (1996).The Aryas: Facts Without Fancy and Fiction. ISBN 8170173183. This book is completely on Arya people. And regarding reading your comment again, words says that problem is not as much with article content but my concept of Arya people. I like to know from you what is so called concept, if content is not as problematic, what is justification of deletion, how subject is hoax when a book is dedicated to it. As Bridger said after removing speedy deletion template, if it proved duplication, as claimed by Chaipau, it can be redirected not deleted. Why Iranians will use Sanskrit word as self designation.  भास्कर् Bhagawati  Speak 10:32, 24 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Few books on Aryas


 * The Aryas: Facts Without Fancy and Fiction by Malati Janardan Shendge, 1996
 * The Sacred Laws Of The Aryas by F. Max Müller, 2001
 * Biographies of Words and the Home of the Aryas by F. Max Muller, 2004
 * The Sacred Laws of the Aryas Part II by F. Max Muller, 2004
 * The wisdom of the Aryas, 1923
 * The home of the Aryas: with notes, references and appendices by Lachhmi Dhar Kalla, University of Delhi, Prakāśana Vibhāga, 2002  भास्कर् Bhagawati  Speak 11:28, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Comment: I do believe that the above list of books is a result of a quick research on books.google.com. I do not think BB actually read those books, because he could not have made the mistake of believing Arya was a tribe if he had read the texts of his own references, as I have quoted above.  I have read the section on the self-designation of the "Aryas" in Shendge's book, and the author pretty much ascribes that to the Indo-Iranians.  It also turns out that people have reconstructed the root of the word in proto-Indo-European, where it is possibly a loan word with Ugaritic origins (, footnote 4) Chaipau (talk) 12:42, 24 July 2013 (UTC)


 * There is no doubt that there are and have been people in this region who describe themselves as Aryan. What we lack evidence for is that there was a specific tribe with this name in Vedic times. Phil Bridger (talk) 12:57, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
 * And, in reply to Bhagawati's invocation of my name, I said "... if it is a duplication [it] would be a valid redirect." This article is not a duplication, but simply an article about an unverifiable topic, so the "would be a valid redirect" part of the comment doesn't kick in. "If" might be a small word but it is very important. Phil Bridger (talk) 09:06, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.