Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Aryana farshad


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. Stifle (talk) 23:34, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Aryana farshad

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

not notable; fails WP:BIO, WP:NOTE. -- Gmatsuda (talk) 22:49, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete. Does not satisfy WP:ENTERTAINER. Has not participated in a significant number of productions and has not won any significant awards. --Amwestover (talk|contrib) 23:01, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Film-related deletion discussions.   -- • Gene93k (talk) 05:19, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Living people-related deletion discussions.   -- • Gene93k (talk) 05:20, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete. Although the amount of work done is very limited, there is one article that indicates some notability. The article is 2 years old and there appears to be no significant development following that. LeaveSleaves talk 17:47, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. - 166.191.146.170 (talk) 01:21, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Strong KEEP. I have just cleaned up and sourced the article per MOS. The filmmaker is not only an award winner, but she has received significant coverage in reliable sources independent of the subject, thus meeting the requirements of WP:N.  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 01:33, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Extremely weak keep. Michael Q greatly improved the sourcing, and I think it clears the bar for notability, but just by a hair. - Realkyhick (Talk to me) 03:44, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Update: Not weak any more. Keep. Well sourced now. - Realkyhick (Talk to me) 07:27, 18 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Comment. Despite the amount of work done by MichaelQSchmidt, there are certain concerns, viz. why don't the award sites do not list the awards given; should we consider an award from a nascent film festival with limited focus and coverage notable enough for inclusion; the person seems to have notability among a select community, but should that be considered as sufficient for inclusion into an encyclopedia. LeaveSleaves talk 04:06, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment. The subject has been shown to be notable in Iranian cinema. While that may not be quite as much as being notable in Bollywood or Hollywood, it would certainly be equivalent to being notable in French or British cinema. Nobody would claim that either of those is such a "select community" as not to provide notability for wikipedia purposes. Phil Bridger (talk) 19:07, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

I have brought LeaveSleaves concern to the Reliable Sources Noticeboard where the discussion can be seen HERE. I have also posted it over at Wikipedia talk:Notability.  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 20:34, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Response The Iranian, April 15 2004 speaks highly toward Aryana Farshad and her award-winning films. So does Iran Heritage Foundation, Iranian Hotline, The Persian Mirror, Arab Film, LACMA, Trinity Western University, Film Society HF, 7rooz, Stanford's Persian Student Association, Spirituality & Practice, Mazalien, Asia Society, The Hartley Foundation, ParsTimes, Iranian Psychological Association of America, and many more.  I cannot speak toward the Telly or Davey websites not being properly updated, but with all the mention elsewhere toward these two awards, I am content to accept on good faith that the awards were indeed given. As it is, I was able to confirm the screening at the Noor Film Festival and her award there. I will now add these sources as well. With respects, there is really a heck of a lot out there in reliable sources to seal her notability even without the awards. Or do we exclude her because of her culture and ethnicity?  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 06:42, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment: I do not have time at the moment to check out the new refs, but I must add that if you look at my edit record, you'd figure out that your allegations of cultural bias, racial discrimination or even racism couldn't be farther from the truth. Next time, try doing your homework and dig up some solid evidence before making such allegations. Thanks. -- Gmatsuda (talk) 07:43, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
 * ???? There was absolutely no allegation made toward you, as your work across Wikipedia has been impeccable. The article you nominated was then unsourced and full of POV. You did what any good editor would do. I cleaned it up, removed the POV, and sourced the hell out of it... However when another editor then writes "the person seems to have notability among a select community, but should that be considered as sufficient for inclusion into an encyclopedia?", I cringe. The editor at once grants notability but then thows it into question as it seems to be "among a select community". Since the subject was born in Iran and has made a tremendous impact being a female of accomplishment (difficult in that culture), one can immediately see that the "select community" being referred to is the Iranian/Persian community... as shown by most of the references found. THAT is the alleged cultural bias of which I speak... a bias which is no way supported by guideline and an argument which has no place at an AfD. Even the posing of the question itself sends a chill up my spine. Simple fact is Notability is notability and "notability among a select community" should have nothing to do with that determination, no matter how neutral the question. So my apologies to you, and my raised eyebrows at the author of that loaded question.  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 18:40, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment. Re: Schmidt's post to my user talk; I see that you've put a lot of work into the article, but Farshad still does not satisfy WP:ENTERTAINER. She was audience choice at a non-notable film festival, and received a non-notable award that's given to thousands of people every year for commercials and non-broadcast video. She hasn't made significant or unique contributions, and she doesn't have a cult following. All she has is coverage by Iranian media and indiscriminate sources on the subject, and even according to IMDB she hasn't done much work. --Amwestover (talk|contrib) 13:18, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
 * NoteI think WP:Creative is the operative policy since it deals specifically with filmmakers. SERSeanCrane (talk) 16:53, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
 * In agreement with SERSeanCrane, she passes under WP:Creative, and not WP:Entertainer. She's an acclaimed documentary filmmaker and not a dancer or singer.  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 18:48, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep - Just to clarify, (From WP:Creative):
 * [Regarding] Scientists, academics, ...filmmakers, ...and other creative professionals:


 * The person is regarded as an important figure or is widely cited by their peers or successors. Fail


 * The person is known for originating a significant new concept, theory or technique. Fail


 * The person has created, or played a major role in co-creating, a significant or well-known work, or collective body of work, which has been the subject of an independent book or feature-length film, or of multiple independent periodical articles or reviews. Weak Pass


 * The person's work either (a) has become a significant monument, (b) has been a substantial part of a significant exhibition, (c) has won significant critical attention, or (d) is represented within the permanent collections of several notable galleries or museums, or had works in many significant libraries. Fail


 * Comment: I am still concerned with the reliability of some of the sources provided. There are a lot of them, though, which is re-assuring. Some things to consider: college/university associations and papers are generally considered poor sources. Also, in the list of sources proffered by MichaelQSchmidt, there is a library entry at Trinity Western University showing that the filmmaker's work is in their collection. Why this matters, I don't know; there are numerous theses/dissertations available at college libraries, but we wouldn't want an article on every phd candidate out there, would we? Also, iranian.com's editorial policy is suspect and I find it hard to consider it reliable: check it out. [] SERSeanCrane (talk) 20:49, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, I am gratified that you grant this person passes WP:CREATIVE Any concerns with which sources are weak can be addressed in article improvement after a possible keep. Yes/ No?  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 21:15, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment. Coverage by Iranian media counts for just as much as coverage in any other media for notability purposes. Phil Bridger (talk) 19:07, 18 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Keep. Well sourced and notable according to reliable sources in article. csloat (talk) 17:13, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Iran-related deletion discussions.   -- Raven1977 (talk) 18:57, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep. The subject has been shown to have more than enough coverage in reliable sources to pass the general notability guideline, whether or not the awards and nominations confer notability in themselves. Phil Bridger (talk) 19:07, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment: I am inclined to agree with the comments above about the article having been improved. The subject probably meets the notability requirements now. Oh...and thanks for the clarification about the allegations of racism. -- Gmatsuda (talk) 22:57, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Again, I aplogize for any errroneous impressions, and much appreciate you as the nom granting that I have met your concerns inre notability.  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 00:38, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Does this mean you are withdrawing the nomination? csloat (talk) 00:12, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, it seems has has, as he wrote "The subject probably meets the notability requirements now". However, there are still three delete !votes that have not modified thier opinions in light of new sources. Heck... I just found out and added that Prince Charles has funded her latest film... and geting the attention of an English Royal pushes her notability outside the "Iranian Community" just a bit. :)  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 07:54, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
 * If he wants to withdraw the nom, I don't think it matters if there are delete votes -- all he needs to do is make a note at the top of the page that the nom is withdrawn and when it is closed it will be closed that way. At least, that's what happened when I withdrew a nom a while back. csloat (talk) 22:59, 20 December 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.