Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ashish (rower)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎__EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__. Following a request for a procedural close after a near unanimous opinion to Keep these articles. Liz Read! Talk! 08:40, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

Ashish (rower)

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

The articles fail WP:GNG, WP:NOTNEWS (WP:NOTWHOSWHO), WP:ROUTINE, and most also fail WP:BLP1E.

I am also nominating the following related pages (most are rowers, but there are a few from other sports):

The main argument put forward by those in favour of keeping these articles is that these people were medallists at the Asian Games, and that somehow even the top 8 finishers are supposedly eligible for their own articles on that basis alone. However, per WP:ATHLETE, Wikipedia's standard for including an article about a given person is not based on whether or not they have attained certain achievements, but on whether or not the person has received appropriate coverage in reliable sources, in accordance with the general notability guideline.

Per WP:GNG, A topic is presumed to be suitable for a stand-alone article or list when it has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject.

I contend that these people are not notable, because:
 * They do not have significant coverage. If they are mentioned in a source, the source is discussing their medal win as part of a team and perhaps tangentially talks about individuals, all within the scope of routine sports coverage. Indeed, per WP:SBST, Wikipedia is not a news source: it takes more than just routine news reports about a single event or topic to constitute significant coverage. For example, routine news coverage such as press releases, public announcements, sports coverage, and tabloid journalism is not significant coverage.
 * Further, most of the sources used are WP:QUESTIONABLE as they occasionally use incorrect terminology (e.g., "Skulls"), which shows a lack of fact-checking/vetting before publication, and even though these sources may functionally enable the verifiability of some content, per WP:ONUS, it does not mean that this content should be included. Indeed many of these details are trivial, which I contend is a case of WP:MASK/WP:BOMBARDMENT (specifically Gish gallop). Therefore, these sources may not be used to support a claim of notability.
 * Many of the links are dead or do not contain any information to support the statements made in the articles.

There are dozens more BLP articles of a similar nature not listed above; this AfD is merely scratching the surface. Rowing007 (talk) 15:50, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: India, Sports,  and Sportspeople. Rowing007 (talk) 15:50, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
 * ●Keep- WP:ANYBIO "The person has received a well-known and significant award or honor, or has been nominated for such an award several times" 😎😎PaulGamerBoy360😎😎 (talk) 16:09, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Ultra-WP:TRAINWRECK Procedural keep – Nominating about 30 articles on Asian Games medalists, each created by different users ranging from 2008 to 2023, and each of which have varying notability, and compete in different sports, is a terrible idea. Some of the reasons are incorrect as well, e.g. WP:BLP1E states In addition, some subject-specific notability guidelines, such as Wikipedia:Notability (sports), provide criteria that may support the notability of certain individuals who are known chiefly for one event. Additionally, some of these do seem to have significant coverage in accordance with the general notability guideline, e.g., one I randomly clicked on. No opposition to individually re-nominating ones that have merit. BeanieFan11 (talk) 16:41, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
 * ● KEEP! - These articles are BLPs of significant achievement and naturally all the Newspapers carried their achievements, winning an Asian Games medal is a significant honour. Naturally, when a team wins a gold, all the team members will be mentioned, that does not make it any less significant than an individual medal. I oppose the deletion process. thanks! Davidindia (talk) 16:44, 6 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Keep: per WP:ANYBIO. The person has made a widely recognized contribution that is part of the enduring historical record in a specific field. Winning a medal at the Asian Games (note that Asia has a population of 4.75 billion) is considered a major and significant achievement. Winning a medal at the Asian Games is a part of enduring historical record. Thilsebatti (talk) 17:49, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep: Being an Asian Games medalist is a significant honour. Their achievement were covered in most of the national medias including many newspapers as well. Many of them had detailed coverage. I don't know whether we are having any policies to include coverage from newspapers to help establish notability. Like DavidIndia said, it is quite natural that most of these atheletes were mentioned in a group as they competed as a team. This does not make them insignificant. The nominator have not even looked at some articles. For example Bajrang Lal Takhar is a winner of Padma Shri, which is India's highest civilian honour. 103.200.45.125 (talk) 18:27, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
 * The nominator has looked at each of the articles up for nomination. The full rationale which refutes your argument has been explained above. With respect to Bajrang Lal Takhar, all of the links are dead. Side note to correct misinformation: Padma Shri is India's fourth-highest civilian award. Rowing007 (talk) 18:35, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
 * 2 of the links for Barjrang Lal Takhar can be accessed through the Wayback Machine.(1 reference & one external) 😎😎PaulGamerBoy360😎😎 (talk) 18:48, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Nope, the only link that is retrievable is this one: and it validates pracitcally none of the information contained on the page. It is far from "significant coverage". This examination can be repeated for each of the other nominated pages. Rowing007 (talk) 19:02, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Whatever it is, being a Padma Sri recipient passes WP:ANYBIO. 103.200.45.125 (talk) 19:21, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
 * As mentioned below, per WP:ANYBIO, meeting one or more [of these criteria] does not guarantee that a subject should be included; indeed, there are tons of Padma Shri recipients who do not have articles. Winning that award and/or winning a medal at the Asian Games are not sufficient for article inclusion. As mentioned above, per WP:ATHLETE, Wikipedia's standard for including an article about a given person is not based on whether or not they have attained certain achievements, but on whether or not the person has received appropriate coverage in reliable sources, in accordance with the general notability guideline. Rowing007 (talk) 19:24, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep per WP:ANYBIO.Asian Games is the second largest multi-sport event after the Olympic Games.Winning a medal in the Asian Games is a well-known and significant award and is a part of enduring historical record.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 19:05, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Per WP:ANYBIO, meeting one or more [of these criteria] does not guarantee that a subject should be included, and, as mentioned above, per WP:ATHLETE, Wikipedia's standard for including an article about a given person is not based on whether or not they have attained certain achievements, but on whether or not the person has received appropriate coverage in reliable sources, in accordance with the general notability guideline. Rowing007 (talk) 19:15, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
 * WP:ANYBIO specifically says any biography. So there is no point in bringing WP:ATHLETE here. 103.200.45.125 (talk) 19:23, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
 * The first part of my comment on its own directly refutes the argument. The language from WP:ATHLETE is still applicable, as it is not in contradiction with WP:ANYBIO. Rowing007 (talk) 19:25, 6 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Procedural keep per WP:TRAINWRECK without prejudice against future individual deletion discussions. Before those AfDs, however, I recommend an RfC on the Asian Games and notability as opposed to hashing that issue out by AfDs with 30 different discussions and inconsistent outcomes.
 * — A. B. (talk • contribs • global count) 19:55, 6 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Procedural keep. No way a meaningful discussion can happen with 30 subjects up for deletion. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 04:33, 7 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Notice of this AfD posted at Talk:India at the 2022 Asian Games. -- A. B. (talk • contribs • global count) 04:37, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Procedural keep too many articles for a wholesale AfD. Best, GPL93 (talk) 18:03, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Procedural keep with no prejudice against individual nominations. Nominating 30 people at once, who may have varying levels of notability, can not allow for meaningful discussion.  Frank  Anchor  18:28, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Procedural keep, there are too many people nominated for deletion. Just spot checking a few articles showed several with multiple sources which would be better to discuss individually and the number nominated here is to large to ensure WP:BEFORE searches are done for each person. Suonii180 (talk) 01:09, 9 November 2023 (UTC)


 * @Liz requesting a procedural close 😎😎PaulGamerBoy360😎😎 (talk) 03:23, 10 November 2023 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.