Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Astrotheology (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete.  MBisanz  talk 00:52, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Astrotheology
AfDs for this article: 
 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

This page, previously deleted as being non-notable, has been recreated. The page as it stands is no more than a dictionary definition. I can only find two sources that directly relate to the subject -- a dictionary definition and the one Derham book cited. I see no reason to think that the article as it now stands is any more likely to be sourced than it was back in June. Sam Korn (smoddy) 18:25, 10 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Transwiki to Wiktionary, as it is just a definition and there are not reliable sources suitable to make it anything more than that. Beeblebrox (talk) 18:41, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Weak Keep -- with a proviso. As it stands today, the article is nothing more than a definition and suitable only for Wiktionary. However, there do appear to be 8 direct titles on Amazon, among others which include the subject, and the popular internet film Zeitgeist (2007 Film) which discusses the subject. As well, a google search shows quite a number of ongoing discussions between advocates and debunkers, which suggests notability. I would suggest keeping the page for the interim and revisit it in a couple of weeks. If hasn't developed further, than it should be transwikied post haste. — Cactus Writer |   needles  19:57, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * My point is essentially that this period of grace -- looking for reliable sources -- has already happened with the previous AFD. Looking at the books in Amazon.com (almost none of which appear to have been published in the UK), I am extremely unsure that there is a coherent subject to write about, rather a few authors who have used the term to describe their own theories.  Sam Korn (smoddy) 20:24, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment Point taken, Sam. However, in reading through the previous Afd, it appears it devolved into a revert war concerning a classic definition of Astrotheology as it relates to Natural Theology. (Unfortunately, the old page history is gone, so I can't place it in context) I admit that I'm not very familiar with the subject, but it seems that Astrotheology is being discussed in a different light these days. NASA historian Steven J. Dick devotes a section to it in his 1998 Cambridge Press book here, writing ...astrotheology in the 20th century came to describe the considerable modifications of theology and religion that might develop in the wake of the discovery of intelligence in the heavens. Which suggests a changing topic from the one in Natural Theology. Therefore, I was looking for a way to merge it and then redirect the page while editors sourced out a bit more. I first thought Natural Theology where it already is mentioned, but given the last Afd discussion, I doubt editors on that page would allow any expansion there. I also considered suggesting New Age Spirituality or somewhere in Cosmology, but I'm not sure about those either. If there isn't a decent "merge and redirect" point for it, I still think a "weak keep" is in order given the popular amount of press and blather found on internet searches, and the discussion by a prominent guy like Dick. Thoughts? — Cactus Writer |   needles  09:06, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Give it a chance. It is unreasonable to flag for lack of content only 4 days after it's been created. As for notability, I think it is easily demonstrable by a simple search and by the fact that entire books were written that were devoted to the subject (e.g. William Derham, "Astro-theology: or A Demonstration of The Being And Attributes of God From A Survey of The Heavens" (1714) which by the way was published in London UK). The fact that information on the subject is not so easy to locate is all the more reason to try to have it here on WP rather than fight it. Estr4ng3d (talk) 21:06, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Strong Delete The article is original research with a hint of spam. Far from having only 4 days to develop content, this is a recreation of an article deleted months ago.  The one external link is an ad for a non-notable book.  Of the three references in the article, one is to that same non-notable book and the other two do not support the subject of the article.  Edward321 (talk) 20:22, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep. I think there is enough material to write a coherent article.  Used in the context of teleological arguments, the term has a subtantial history, including William Derham's 1714 Astro-Theology.  That the modern new-age spirituality use of the term has deviated from its roots at the intersection of natural history and religion is not cause to delete the article, but rather evidence that it can be developed into something more substantial than a dictionary definiton (and the Cambridge University Press book cited above draws explicit connections between the two eras of use).  I don't have a full copy available, but it looks as though the topic has even seen some discussion in scholarly journals, such as this article  in Biology and Philosophy.  Serpent&#39;s Choice (talk) 16:13, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete The article itself makes evident that it is talking about several different things-- the question of salvation of postulated individuals elsewhere as a theological topic is one thing; deducing God's existence and properties from the nature of  the heavenly bodies another. Both of these are perfectly good topics (plurality of worlds, and natural theology,respectively), but this article is not a good start to discussing them.  DGG (talk) 00:11, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete - quite simply bollocks. Seems to confuse a archaeological astronomy or Archaeoastronomy - which is a pure history/science discipline with theological debates within Christianity about the soteriological possibilities if extra-terrestrial life exists. Both are valid topics, but utterly unrelated.--Troikoalogo (talk) 01:13, 13 September 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.