Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Atlantis (brothel) (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. -- Cirt (talk) 19:58, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Atlantis (brothel)
AfDs for this article: 
 * – ( View AfD View log )

Not notable former brothel. Article is unverified, and while I'd love to add some sources, there aren't any. Google News searches for 'Atlantis brothel Frankfurt' as well as 'Atlantis Bordell Frankfurt' reveal nothing. In Google Books the English permutation gives one hit, a mere mention in a book from a barely notable publisher; the German permutation provides a little bit more--with the caveat that it's from a print on demand book. So, no. Drmies (talk) 18:20, 13 February 2011 (UTC)  Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 01:22, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
 * PS: I just noticed that the article had been through AfD in 2004; this is one of the versions of that time. The AfD discussion is interesting, if only because of a complete lack of references being brought forth, let alone cited, and because it ended in a keep. Drmies (talk) 18:24, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete Someone needs to put the work in and list the references.  Nipson anomhmata   (Talk) 16:03, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I don't understand. Are you saying there are references? Drmies (talk) 00:48, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * No. I'm saying that if there are any worthwhile references that someone has to put the work in and add them to the article. Otherwise this article should be deleted. I'm not spending any time searching for a brothel.  Nipson anomhmata   (Talk) 02:46, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Germany-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 15:35, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Business-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 15:35, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sexuality and gender-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 15:36, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment This is actually its third deletion nomination. The first is preserved on the talkpage. That was in 2003; the 2nd was in 2004. I believe they both predate the requirement that articles have references. I'll do some digging later and see whether I can find anything. Yngvadottir (talk) 16:32, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep As I suspected, one has to search for Altenstadt rather than Frankfurt. FKK Sauna Club Altenstadt gets a huge number of hits on adult listing sites and forums, in both English and German. These confirm the details of the article, and I have added back the useful contextual mention of Freikörperkultur and linked it, and added the size of the club. I have also added the later incarnation of the club (seems to date to 2007) in a different municipality. However none of these are RS. Nothing in Der Spiegel on this one, but I got 4 hits in the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung archive, all regarding the closure, which I think establishes notability. I added the earliest 2 articles as refs on the closure, but they are paywalled and I can only see the headlines, months, and first line or so of text; someone with a subscription needs to go look at them for specifics. I left the legal grounds for closure since the forums all agree on them, but strictly speaking that is unreferenced at present. Yngvadottir (talk) 19:36, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Comment. If there is anything, other than the closure, to establish notability mentioned in any of the references? The closure of a brothel, mentioned in newspapers, doesn't really make for a notable event (if it does then Wikipedia will be deluged with articles about places that have closed down with a mention in a couple of newspapers). Was there anything special about it? Was it in a famous movie? Or were any famous people exposed for having attended it? Or basically, anything that isn't just about the closure. I'll withdraw my delete if there is anything that establishes notability.  Nipson anomhmata   (Talk) 21:29, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
 * This is an awkward one. I really hope there is someone with access to the newspaper archives; without that, I don't know whether there is - in RS. (The articles will presumably mention earlier discussion of the topics that predates the online archive, if there is any.) On the other hand, it is all over racy sites in both German and English. If ever there were a notable brothel in Germany in the last decade, this apparently was it. But I hope I didn't infect my computer searching.--Yngvadottir (talk) 22:02, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, King of &hearts;   &diams;   &clubs;  &spades; 04:24, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Delete - It has been closed for a while, and is not notable enough for an article here--Antwerpen Synagoge (talk) 17:11, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment Notability does not expire - if it was notable, it doesn't matter that it no longer exists.--Yngvadottir (talk) 20:31, 2 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep - Clearly notable for the wikipedia. I say keep.--BabbaQ (talk) 17:59, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
 * WP:ITSNOTABLE is not a valid reason. LibStar (talk) 12:38, 2 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete insufficient indepth sources to meet WP:ORG. LibStar (talk) 12:38, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.