Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Atul Raghav (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. While this discussion is fairly even in terms of sheer numerical votes, the policy backing for delete is significantly stronger. Specifically that NSPORTS articles must ultimately meet GNG, and keep !voters did not significantly defend that the sources being utilised were reliable/independent/secondary/in-depth. Nosebagbear (talk) 15:53, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

Atul Raghav
AfDs for this article:


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Doesn't seem to qualify WP:NSPORTS. There is an old AFD where it was deleted too. Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 02:17, 9 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 02:17, 9 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 02:17, 9 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Symbol keep vote.svg Keep: This page should not be deleted because this page meets the WP:GNG notable criteria of WP:NSPORTS required for an article. I know the fact, this page was deleted earlier due to lack of independent sources because it's hard and takes a lot to show a 17 year old notable and a significant personality. Taekwondo is not much highlighted in India. Also,Please keep in mind that except Olympics and open tournaments, no other games have been conducted since almost 2 years due to covid. Instead of deletion, you can site this article to improve it further.Divineplus (talk) 05:28, 9 October 2021 (UTC).
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Martial arts-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 07:42, 9 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 07:42, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

Keep: This article pass WP:GNG because it has significant coverage of different events and also pass WP:NSPORTS. Yes, this is the fact it was deleted earlier in 2020 due to lack of independent sources, but this year he won some tournaments more according to new reliable sources added. So, if an article receives significant coverage from independent media sources and passes WP: GNG, it is not appropriate to delete it. Rather than tagging it for future improvements if needed.  ❯❯❯  Chunky aka Al Kashmiri   (✍️) 02:39, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep per above, appears to be enough references here focusing on the subject for it to pass WP:GNG. NemesisAT (talk) 14:57, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

There are many more coverage on the internet and here is the SGFI profile of the subject. [/ Atul Raghav(Player)] Now, I believe that SGFI do not need any introduction and notability. (For editors of other countries, SGFI is an government body which stands for School Games Federation Of India) :*Comment: won a gold medal in Council for the Indian School Certificate Examinations doesnt not meet Wikipedia notability guidlines and also the subject fails NSPORT. :*Comment: Any sport that is not listed in Sport specific guidelines will deter to NSPOR and this is Wikipedia so the notability guidelines are per Wikipedia and not subject to a particular race or nation or continent. Again subject fails all notabilities listed in Wikipedia. Cassiopeia  talk  23:07, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment None of the tournaments that subject has played or participated in would work under WP:NSPORTS. Sources are very routine announcements are either not in-depth or are not written independently. And what about WP:RS? Most of these sources don't look reliable at all. Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 22:14, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete: non of the tournaments mentioned are notable. The article still lacks independent reliable sources.DEFCON5 (talk) 03:59, 11 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment This article passes WP:GNG because it has reliable coverage of different events and also pass WP:NSPORTS as there's no special criteria given for Taekwondo. Also, go through the article of Aruna Singh Tanwar and check the tournaments record. She also participated in G Ranked tournaments at first and then qualified for Asian, World Championships and for Olympics. NOTE: No athlete can compete in Asian, World or Olympics without winning a medal in G-Ranking tournaments. However, you won't find much Indian news article covering G Ranking championships but you'll find the results of the matches and as well as articles with extra efforts. I'm linking those for you all.
 * [/ 8th Fujairah by World Taekwondo]
 * [/ fujairah-all-set-to-host-the-biggest-international-taekwondo-championship-in-the-region-1.69304050]
 * [/ 8th Fujairah]
 * [/ Pakistan Taekwondo]
 * [/ Taekwondo Nepal]
 * [/fujairah-g2-international-taekwondo-championship-ends-on-a-high-note]
 * Delete There are no significant changes to his notability since the article was deleted last December. He has not competed in any major tournaments as an adult that would show WP:NSPORT is met.  He's not come close to competing at the Olympics or world championships.  There's also nothing that shows he meets any martial arts notability criteria at WP:MANOTE.  The fact that other athletes have started at G2 tournaments and become notable does not mean that all G2 competitors are notable.  I did not find him listed among the thousands of competitors listed at taekwondodata.com or at the world taekwondo rankings.  Junior and school championships do not show WP notability.  Coverage of lots of events is, by definition, routine sports reporting and does not show that WP:GNG is met. Papaursa (talk) 15:50, 11 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete and salt it is clear subject fails WP:NSPORT for not competition in notable tournament and also fail GNG as records are merely routine report. Cassiopeia  talk  23:49, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete The tournaments mentioned are not notable.Advait.kansal (talk) 08:55, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep The person is notable and also won a gold medal in Council for the Indian School Certificate Examinations. As it is mentioned in the article. Successfully passes WP:NSPORTS. Abhisekh Raj (talk) 16:01, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
 * KEEP TAEKWONDO is not listed in WP:NSPORT so the notability still depend on Editor's mercy. He has won multiple Gold and represented India in another country. It's notable among Indian people. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2409:4053:2102:7241:0:0:161E:40A5 (talk) 21:06, 13 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Comment: I agree with @Cassiopeia. My reasons for DELETE:
 * Winning gold medal in Council for the Indian School Certificate Examinations doesn't establish notability as per Wikipedia guidelines.
 * All references provided in the article are not reliable with exception to Dainik jagran which is a leading national daily. Advait (talk) 08:24, 14 October 2021 (UTC)
 * You already voted above. I disagree with the idea that all sources are unreliable, I see nothing wrong with articles like this and this. NemesisAT (talk) 11:19, 14 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Heraldspot itself is a not notable portal. You can search about it. It can at max be considered to be a blog, it's not even RNI registered. Advait (talk) 11:43, 16 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Comment: What about Newstrack,Apn news, Dainik Jagran, Navbharat Times and English Newstrack? They are reliable sources right? They are the national newspapers. Do you still think these 5 news sources are not enough to be notable?Divineplus (talk). — Preceding undated comment added 15:55, 16 October 2021 (UTC)
 * @Divineplus Please note there is no reference of Navbharat Times in the article. And others sources except Dainik Jagran are not notable / reliable sources. Advait (talk) 11:12, 18 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Comment: If I am not mistaken, both sources is the same source, again, to pass GNG subject need to have significant coverage from independent, reliable sources. 1/2 sources is not enough, we are looking for at least 5-7. Subject at this moment is till fails to meet any notabilities in Wikipedia. Cassiopeia  talk  19:49, 14 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment: The subject has 6 reliable articles including Newstrack,Apn news, Dainik Jagran, Navbharat Times and English Newstrack. You said, it need 5-7 article to be notable. Then on what grounds can you say that the subject is not notable? However I have provided you the data of CISCE and SGFI also. Government tournaments cannot be fake even the G2 Fujairah Dubai. All the results and participation player's are listed there on their websites and I have attached them also but you are not counting it. Now, I'm assuming that you are not a giving a fair chance to the editors. 5-6 national news + official results + blogs,biography and youtube interviews are itself enough to be notable.Divineplus (talk). — Preceding undated comment added 16:04, 16 October 2021 (UTC)
 * , I read the your posts on my talk page, where you asked me not to be hard on junior athletes because they should not be held to the same standards as senior athletes. On the contrary, age is not a determining factor of WP notability.  You also mentioned the Youth Olympics, but gold medal winners at the youth olympics have been deleted as not notable.  In general, junior athletes are not considered notable, and that has always been especially true of martial artists.  Martial artists who win a division limited by age (high or low) have almost always been considered not notable--whether it's an under 18 or an over 35 division means the field has been limited and is not considered "at the highest level", which is what WP:NSPORT requires. Papaursa (talk) 17:26, 16 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Comment Newstrack is not a reliable source. Neither is APN. Nomadicghumakkad (talk) 13:41, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment: Divineplus, YouTube, blog, official sites are not considered either reliable or independent. Cassiopeia  talk  23:10, 18 October 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.