Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Audrey Fildes


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎__EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__. I'm closing this as Keep as the Delete opinion is a Weak Delete, the article is no longer unsourced and we have at least two enthusiastic editors who can work on improving this article. Liz Read! Talk! 21:00, 29 August 2023 (UTC)

Audrey Fildes

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Tagged for notability since 2010. Unsourced bio. Fails WP:NACTOR and WP:GNG. UtherSRG (talk) 11:59, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Actors and filmmakers, Women, England,  and Canada. UtherSRG (talk) 11:59, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep: I've found a Beaton portrait in the National Portrait Gallery, and there's an intriguing Central Office of Information documentary Designing Women (1947 film), starring her with Joyce Grenfell - see BFI and the note on her talk page (and the nonRS IMDb). It does look as if much of the content of the article was added by likely COI editor User:SonsPaulandNicholas and SPA User:Jmcmurrah, but it all seems reasonable and most of it likely to be verifiable (well, perhaps not the family story about "My Portia"!) Pinging  who created the article,in case it's no longer on their watchlist.  Pam  D  09:23, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
 * OK, I've fallen down today's Wikipedia rabbit-hole and the 1947 film is no longer a red link. Pam  D  13:47, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment: nothing in the Globe and Mail's archive.
 * -- A. B. (talk • contribs • global count) 09:35, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Dusti*Let's talk!* 12:49, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
 *  Keep. A basic internet search helps define WP:Notability. This actress has pages of search results for her acting work. I added her television work in the UK as well, one broadcast was from a live performance — Preceding unsigned comment added by Starlighsky (talk • contribs) 2 August 2023 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Weak Delete. Of the sources provided only one is usable for notability. The others are simple mentions without commentary or databases. The level of work seen in her IMDb profile (nor the theatre work mentioned there) is not enough to presume notability in the absence of multiple independent, reliable sources that discuss the subject in more detail than the ones we have. Eluchil404 (talk) 02:22, 15 August 2023 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 18:08, 15 August 2023 (UTC) Relisting comment: Final relist Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, D</b><b style="color:#F60">u</b><b style="color:#090">s</b><b style="color:#00F">t</b><b style="color:#60C">i</b>*Let's talk!* 00:53, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Keep
 * Hoo boy. So, I found a lot of mentions of her. I'm thinking she does qualify for NACTOR based on the number of productions.
 * The stage performances (none listed in the article) that I've found so far: Rodney Ackland's dramatization of Crime and Punishment; The Rivals; Ring Round the Moon; Noel Coward's Point Valaine; He Who Gets Slapped; Hamlet (1945); The Return of the Prodigal; A Trip to the Sourdough; The Relapse.
 * Mentions in Theatre Arts magazine in reviews of productions she was in:
 * -January 1945 (v 29, # 1, p 61) "Chanticleer Theatre" by Raymond Leader. Noted as part of Greta Douglas' troupe with Margaret Gordon, Peter Noble, Robert Marsden and Alan Adair. Also noted she was invited (whole troupe, actually) to play on Shaftesbury Ave.
 * -January 1946 (v 30, # 1, p 23) "English Spotlight: The Rivals" by Leslie Stokes. Mentioned as new actress.
 * -October 1946 (v 30, # 10, p 594) "Crime and Punishment". Mentioned as one of the "other actors in the large cast" of production of Dostoevsky's Crime and Punishment.
 * -November 1946 (v 30, # 11, p 640) "Gieglud as Raskolnikoff" by James Reynolds. Mentioned as performance being ineffectual.
 * In Drama magazine:
 * -Summer 1950 (v 1, # 17, p 11) photograph for "Ring Round the Moon" with Paul Scofield.
 * In Variety:
 * - September 3, 1947 (v 167, # 13, p 117) Production of Noel Coward's "Point 'Valaine" at the Embassy theatre.
 * - October 1, 1947 (v 168, # 4, p 182) review of While I Live (misspelled as "While I Love")
 * - June 1, 1949 (v 74, # 12, p 259) review of Kind Hearts and Coronets.
 * In Films in Review:
 * - September 1950 (v 1, # 6, p 32) review with cast list of Kind Hearts and Coronets.
 * In Punch:
 * - July 10, 1946 (v 211, # 5506, p 37) review with cast list of stageplay of Crime and Punishment.
 * In Saturday Review:
 * - July 15, 1950 (v 33, # 28, p 30) review with cast list for Kind Hearts and Coronets.
 * In Ciné Revue
 * - August 26, 1976 (v 56, # 35, p 20) review of Kind Hearts and Coronets. (in French)
 * Playbills / cast lists:
 * - the listing of players in the 1946 London production of Rodney Ackland's dramatization of Crime and Punishment.
 * - United Artists pressbook for Kind Hearts and Coronets. (already listed in article as film)
 * -- Also in Photoplay from Jul-Dec 1950, p 199; The Film Daily from 1951, p 190; a copy of the screenplay with cast list from the production
 * - Showman's Trade Review of While I Live (already listed in article as film)
 * - listed as playing Consuela in "He Who Gets Slapped" in 1947, with plot description on page 199; a review on pages 219, 315-6; and a picture on page 281.
 * - a review of "The Relapse" (and the cast list).
 * -- a second on this production, and cast list, with a photograph
 * - in Claire Bloom's autobiography: 1, 2 productions (I'm not logged in on IA, atm, so I don't have the play names, sorry).
 * - cast listing for "Ring Round the Moon"
 * -- Also in the Christopher Fry Album
 * -- A copy of the stageplay with the cast list from the production.
 * - cast list for The Rivals and for Ring Round the Moon.
 * -- Also a picture for The Rivals, and notes on the September 25, 1945 production.
 * - as Ophelia in Hamlet.
 * - photograph with John Gielgud in The Return of the Prodigal; review of A Trip to the Sourdough.
 * - cast list for Coward's Point Valaine.
 * This isn't even close to everything that came up in the search, just what I've looked at.
 * I also found a one line mention about a "Four Seasons Ltd", which was apparently a theatre troupe she was part of at the Duchess Theatre in London.
 * Getty Images OIM20 (talk) 03:57, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm thinking she does qualify for Wikipedia:NACTOR based on the number of productions. WP:NACTOR#1 says The person has had significant roles in multiple notable films, television shows, stage performances, or other productions (emphasis mine). I agree she has had multiple roles. How many were significant roles in notable productions? - UtherSRG (talk) 11:43, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Characters she played on stage from the cast lists linked above:
 * Hamlet: Ophelia.
 * Crime and Punishment: Sonya. Character analysis: Cliffs Notes; Spark Notes
 * The Relapse: Amanda. Wikipedia article on the play lists it as one of the three main roles.
 * The Rivals: Lydia Languish. Lincoln Center Theatre shows it as one of the main roles in the play.
 * Ring Round the Moon: Diana Messerschmann. Oxford Reference and New York Magazine have it as a main role.
 * Point Valaine: Elise Berling. Wikipedia article on the play - this was the premiere London performance. Again, it is one of the main roles in the play. OIM20 (talk) 13:32, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Sure, but was it a notable production? Just because the play itself is notable doesn't mean every production of it is notable? Your high school could put on a production of the same play and that (very likely) is not notable. - UtherSRG (talk) 13:41, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Well Point Valaine obviously is a notable production (the London premiere), but are you actually suggesting that performing on London's West End is equivalent to a high school production?
 * I'm not being facetious; I'm new to AfD and I thought providing a response on a relisted discussion would be more helpful than one that others are more likely paying attention to. So I'm actually asking. How notable does it need to be for it to be relevant?
 * From what I've read, the burden is on the person wanting to keep the article to prove significance, so if I'm to do that, I need to know what the determining factors are.
 * Also, should I be providing a detailed analysis of each link? I thought a summary would be fine b/c that's how I noticed it was done elsewhere. Is the burden higher on relisted discussions? OIM20 (talk) 13:55, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
 * You should check out WP:NFILM for notability for films, etc. Actors gonna act... that doesn't mean they are notable. This is why we have WP:NACTOR. Start with that and NFILM to start gaining an understanding. As for relisted discussions, that just means no conclusion has yet been reached, and the closer doesn't see a need for an immediate ending; no additional burden is levied. - UtherSRG (talk) 15:30, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Can I assume that "film" can be replaced with "stageplay" for most of that, or is there something separate for stage performances?
 * _________________
 * @Dusti, @Liz - Since I need to prove that the performances themselves were significant despite the fact she played on London's West End, can I have a couple of days to go through the rest of the 260 returns on Internet Archive to determine how many are movie reviews, how many are play reviews, and then where, when, and how significant each stage performance was? I don't know that I can finish that by the 30th when this is set to close.
 * If the above is any indication, there's a good mix, and a lot of the references will be for the same performances.
 * (And I do know that at least one is actually a film that's on IA's servers. So there may be others that are similar content and not useful for showing she should remain due to NACTOR.) OIM20 (talk) 17:12, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
 * OIM20, please stop. AFDs are a forum for presenting arguments for a particular outcome for an article, typically based in Wikipedia policy regarding notability and sources that suport claims of notability. It's not the location for presenting article content so do not list every role this actor ever had. It will not convince other editors to suport your position which is usually how deletion discussions are determined. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 03:37, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh. Okay. OIM20 (talk) 03:58, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Sorry - inadvertently left out He Who Gets Slapped: Consuelo. Wikipedia page on the play - main role. It's in the fifth paragraph of this section that one of her performances of the play is discussed, but not the one in 1947 I linked to information on above. OIM20 (talk) 13:45, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh. Okay. OIM20 (talk) 03:58, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Sorry - inadvertently left out He Who Gets Slapped: Consuelo. Wikipedia page on the play - main role. It's in the fifth paragraph of this section that one of her performances of the play is discussed, but not the one in 1947 I linked to information on above. OIM20 (talk) 13:45, 24 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Keep as it is now. It was a long time ago, but notable. Johnbod (talk) 03:45, 29 August 2023 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.