Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/August Höglund


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Russia. No prejudice against re-expanding to an article if additional sources can be found. MelanieN (talk) 21:23, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

August Höglund

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Non-notable subject that does not meet WP:BASIC. WP:BEFORE searches for independent, reliable sources have yielded virtually nothing except for one name check in a directory listing. The two primary sources in the article and found in searches do not serve to establish notability, and I am unable to access the almanac listing in the article. Even if the almanac listing provides significant coverage, it is still only one source, and nothing else appears to exist. North America1000 20:03, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Christianity, Sweden and Utah. North America1000 20:07, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep. There's a Master's thesis here that mentions him briefly, but which also refers us to a number of other sources regarding the early history of the LDS Church in Russia: "See Kahlile B. Mehr, “Johan and Alma Lindolf: Early Saints in Russia,” Ensign (July 1981): 23-24; Kahlile B. Mehr, “The 1903 Dedication of Russia for Missionary Work,” Journal of Mormon History 13 (1986-87): 110-123; Kahlile B. Mehr, Mormon Missionaries Enter Eastern Europe (Salt Lake City, Utah: Deseret Book, 2002); Gary Browning, Russia and the Restored Gospel (Salt Lake City, Utah: Deseret Book, 1997), and E. A. Eliason and Gary Browning, “Crypto-Mormons or Pseudo-Mormons? Latter-day Saints and Russia’s Indigenous New Religious Movements,” Western Folklore 61, no. 2 (2002): 173-207." There's also a Desert News article from 1991 here. Also here in a book from Brigham Young University Press.Jahaza (talk) 20:37, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
 * That Journal of Mormon History article is here.Jahaza (talk) 20:42, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment – Below is a partial source review. If possible,, could you provide links for the unlinked sources above? North America1000 20:57, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

 References
 * The thesis contains one very short footnote sentence about the subject, stating, "August J. Hoglund to Anthon H. Lund, 18 June 1895, Millennial Star 57 (27 June 1895): 414.". This is not significant coverage, and theses and dissertations are questionable as being usable on Wikipedia to qualify notability.
 * That is incorrect. Page 49 of the thesis discusses August Hoglund and states that the topic of Hoglund's trip to St. Petersburg has been covered elsewhere and provides the footnote I reproduced above. The thesis was later published as an article in The Journal of Mormon HistoryJahaza (talk) 00:21, 9 June 2022 (UTC)


 * The Deseret News article contains two short sentences about he subject, stating, "In 1895, Elder August Joel Hoglund, a native of Sweden, was sent to St. Petersburg, Russia, where he arrived June 9. He met with the Johan M. Lindelof family and baptized Johan and his wife, Alma, on June 11 in the river Neva." This is not significant coverage, and is essentially routine reporting.
 * This isn't routine reporting per WP:ROUTINE, which is things like announcements, weddings, community meetings, store openings, etc. it's the opposite actually, it's an article written in 1991 about about a historical event that shows interest in the topic persisting long after its occurrence.--Jahaza (talk) 00:21, 9 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Mormon Missionaries Enter Eastern Europe only provides snippet views, but it doesn't seem that there is significant coverage there. Snippet views will often highlight several name mentions when they are present, but there are only two there.
 * Ensign (LDS magazine) is a primary source that is not usable to establish notability. It was an an official periodical of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
 * I cannot access the Journal of Mormon History article. Does this contain significant coverage, or is this also only a passing mention?
 * Browning, Russia and the Restored Gospel is available here with a page on Hoglund's trip to Russia and his observations there.


 * To be frank, this is time-wasting quibbling. There's verifiable history here and really no debate about that. Your original deletion argument rested largely on the fact that you couldn't access the source cited in the article and so it could be discounted, not a good argument and on the fact that you couldn't find any other sources beyond one name check in a directory, but it was very easy to turn up articles, papers, and books discussing the man. If you don't think he's notable enough, just redirect it to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Russia, where he's already mentioned. There's really no reason to not make it a redirect as he's consistently mentioned in LDS materials and materials about the LDS Church in Russia (see, e.g. this Vice interview), making his name a plausible redirect to the article where he's mentioned.--Jahaza (talk) 00:21, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
 * It turns out if you google "2007 Deseret Morning News Church Almanac" the Internet Archive scan is high up in the results, with one sentence on Hoglund.. Obviously that's not enough to make an article out of, but I think it's signifigant for his notability that he shows up in a source like that in the compressed history of the LDS Church in that country, like an early missionary or proto-martyr from the Catholic Church would.--Jahaza (talk) 00:32, 9 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the information. Coverage of the subject that is viewable is very scant; there is no significant coverage at all among viewable sources. I also seriously doubt that Mormon Missionaries Enter Eastern Europe contains more than just a couple of sentences or so. Just because a subject is verifiable does not mean that they are automatically notable per Wikipedia's standards. However, I am fine with a redirect to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Russia . North America1000 18:22, 9 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Redirect or delete as has been discussed. I took a look at the Journal of Mormon History reference, and similar to the other sources this individual doesn't get more than a one or two sentence mention. Could definitely be used in the main Russia article, but not notable enough for its own. Rollidan (talk) 21:31, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete The main focus of the article is that he was the first person to convert a Russian resident, but his trip took a mere 10 days. Nothing else is said about his work in Sweden.  Looks NN to me.  Peterkingiron (talk) 15:48, 12 June 2022 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, RL0919 (talk) 20:51, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I approached this with every intention to dispute suggestions for deletion since AH was "the first" in something but after I went through the sources proffered above by Jahaza I saw they're mostly about, as Jahaza put it, "the early history of the LDS Church in Russia" and not about our subject. There is no defensible independent notability. Let's Redirect this to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Russia and Merge there any text that can be saved. -The Gnome (talk) 09:54, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Should not be deleted. Important person as the first to bring the Mormon faith to Russia. 2600:100C:B225:154F:B91F:FF21:8F3F:FBF4 (talk) 15:46, 21 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Weak keep with the sources as mentioned above. Oaktree b (talk) 21:40, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
 *  This AfD discussion has been proposed for merger to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Russia, and a notice of the proposed merger was posted to on June 22. As such, this AfD discussion may need to be extended or relisted to incorporate input from.

Relisting comment: There is a merger tag down here at the bottom of the AFD but I don't see a wellspring of support for merging this article. But I'll give it another week to consider this option, knowing that this AFD can be closed earlier. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 22:48, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * The merger tag there is a record of the fact that there has been a suggestion of merging it, and therefore, as per WP:MERGE, it is proper that the putative target be notified, which has happened. If merger is not the likely outcome of the AfD discussion, that need not delay closure.  But maybe when it is closed, the closer would remover the notification from that page. Thanks, Kevin McE (talk) 12:35, 25 June 2022 (UTC)


 * delete with redirect and improvement. Any possible notoriety I could find is already stated in the referenced section, but doesn't appear significant enough for a separate page. Redirect to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Russia. Maybe wording and info can be improved in this section.--Dmm1169 (talk) 00:38, 26 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete. Fails WP:SIGCOV. No evidence that there are sources which address the subject "directly and in detail".4meter4 (talk) 17:15, 30 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete WP:1E and a not very notable 1E at that, based on the limited coverage. There's little sourcing to show that what this missionary did was important or earth-shattering enough to warrant an entire article. The entirety of this is already in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Russia anyway. An easy delete vote, but I could be talked into making this a redirect to that section. TimTempleton (talk) (cont)  22:41, 30 June 2022 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.